Under Pressure: How First Responders Train Composure

Pressure does not always look like flames and sirens. Sometimes it looks like a tight collar grip, a failing escape, and the moment you realize your first plan is gone. For our 50th episode, we sit down with Justin Meyer and Vinny Mercadonte, two firefighters and training partners, to talk about why Brazilian Jiu Jitsu makes sense for people who already live in demanding environments. It is not about pretending the mats equal an emergency scene, it is about learning what happens inside us when comfort disappears and someone still needs us to be useful. 

We swap origin stories from the fire service and from BJJ: chasing brotherhood after the military, switching careers into EMS, and starting jiu jitsu later in life through family and good coaching at Ironwolf Academy. Justin shares the white belt experience of feeling overwhelmed and trying to muscle everything, then finally hitting a sweep on purpose. Vinny explains the blue belt shift, where chaos becomes a chess game, lower belts come harder, and patience matters more than winning rounds. 

We also get practical about what training does for first responders and anyone with a high stress job: unmatched grappling cardio, learning to move with intention, adjusting workouts for longevity, and using jiu jitsu as a mental health reset. If you care about self-defense, humility, composure under pressure, and the power of community, this conversation is for you. Subscribe, share it with a training partner, and leave a review so more people find the show.

Check out Justin's custom knives by connect @jmforged

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Check out Rubber Bones at the website link in the show notes, and remember to use the discount code Caffeinated10 when ordering. 

Transcript

Welcome To Caffeinated Jiu Jitsu

Intro/Outro 0:09

And the damage that extra deep into the world of Brazilians are digital as we explore the journey, the techniques, the technologies, and the huge joy of the sport from a white belt perspective, from three interviews with renowned coaches and professors to playful fun episodes that will have you taught me with Rome. We've got it all broad and ready to go to the past years.

Joe Motes (Host) 1:01

Today's

Meet Two Firefighters Who Train

Joe Motes (Host) 1:02

conversation is one I am super excited about and have been looking forward to because it brings together uh two worlds that are both built around things we're passionate about here at Caffeinated Jiu Jitsu, and that's trust, composure, humility, and of course jujitsu, and also the people beside you. And my guests are today are uh Justin Meyer and Vinny Mercadonte. Mercadante, see? I told you. I and I even wrote it down, but I forgot where I wrote it down at here. Um they are both firefighters and even cooler, both training partners uh at Ironwolf Academy here at Brazleton, or here in Brazleton, and they are experiencing uh jujitsu from two two different places. Justin's uh a newer white belt with about five or six months under his belt, which means you know there's there's uh still some newness and it can still feel a little bit chaotic still. And Vinny's a blue belt, so he has uh just that that level of experience where it's a little less chaotic, uh, can recognize some patterns and and it doesn't suck every time you're on the mat. But we're also gonna talk about uh why someone who already works in a demanding uh kind of environment, why they would choose a hobby that applies even more pressure. So I want to make one thing crystal clear though. A controlled training environment around on the mat is not the same as a real emergency. And we're not gonna pretend like it's equal. What we're gonna explore is the connection, that human connection and what happens inside us when our first plan fails, comfort may disappear, and people around us are demand are depending on us uh to be useful. Justin and Vinny, welcome to the podcast.

SPEAKER_04 3:09

Thank you, thank you.

Joe Motes (Host) 3:10

I didn't realize how long that intro was when I wrote it, man.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

That was a good one. That's pretty yeah.

Joe Motes (Host) 3:15

I'm trying to get better at the intros. Man, uh so this is the 50th episode. I meant to call that out. So thank you both for being here for that. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 3:24

Congratulations, thank you.

Joe Motes (Host) 3:25

Yeah, I um but I would man, if you go back and look at some of the uh first few episodes, man, I wish I could go back and redo some of those intros. So I started writing them out and scripting them a little bit, but uh so yeah, uh thank you both for being here. And Vinny, you just celebrated your birthday, right?

SPEAKER_04 3:50

I did, my 50th.

Joe Motes (Host) 3:51

Nice, man. Nice.

SPEAKER_04 3:53

Over the hill.

Joe Motes (Host) 3:54

Nice. I wanted to make sure we got that on recording and make you feel good, feel really really good. Uh and also before we we start in the first section, Vin Vinny, were you in the in the military? Were you were both of you in the military or the Marine Corps for four years? There we go. All right, awesome. Awesome. And Justin, about uh were you were you in the military?

SPEAKER_03 4:14

No, sir.

Joe Motes (Host) 4:15

Okay, okay. And you both work at the same fire station. Is that correct?

SPEAKER_03 4:20

We work at the same department, not the station.

Joe Motes (Host) 4:22

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 4:22

So it's a little different.

Joe Motes (Host) 4:24

Yeah, I have no clue how that works. I just see the stations and the number, and I thank God that there's one by my house.

SPEAKER_04 4:28

Yep. We work for Gwynette County. Yeah.

Joe Motes (Host) 4:31

So Oh, that's pretty big, huh?

SPEAKER_04 4:33

31 stations.

Joe Motes (Host) 4:34

So So e uh the stations here in this area are that's included in that?

SPEAKER_04 4:39

No. No.

Joe Motes (Host) 4:39

No. No.

SPEAKER_04 4:40

So I Jackson, yeah.

Joe Motes (Host) 4:42

So y'all live here but work in up in Gwynette kind of area.

unknown 4:47

Correct.

SPEAKER_03 4:48

Actually, I live in Madison County, so I don't even know what to do. Oh, dude. Yeah. I live in the country.

Joe Motes (Host) 4:52

Man, you do. Yeah, yeah. The listeners probably have no idea. Well, I hope they don't have any idea where that is. That's country. That's country. My uh, so my dad and my well, that's that's where my dad was born and raised, was Madison County, Georgia. And my uh I'm gonna say it granny, my granny moats, uh, she lived in this just run-down trailer at the end of this dirt road, man. There's a ton of kids living there, and I used to go there as um, you know, my parents grew or my dad grew up in that trailer, and then I would I would go there as a kid, and I would have fun because it was a lot to do out in the country.

SPEAKER_01 5:31

Sure.

Joe Motes (Host) 5:32

But as I got older, I was like, man, I would not like to be here. Pretty rough. Yeah, it was bad. It was bad.

Vinny’s Fire Service Origin Story

Joe Motes (Host) 5:40

All right, so uh, you know, before we we get into to some of the primary things and things we want to talk about, would love to uh talk a little bit about kind of your origin stories when it comes to um comes to jujitsu and also you know what what had each of you choose uh the firefighter life, so to speak. Vinny, you want to go first?

SPEAKER_04 6:06

Uh sure. Um I guess I'll start with what you want well, first of all, what made me choose the firefighter life. I was in the Marine Corps, like I told you, for um four years when I got out, um, like we talked about before we got on camera or the mic, um, you know, the brotherhood of the military, you know, something I really uh enjoyed. Um, and I was searching for that when I got out. And actually, funny story, I got out in September of ninety-eight, and um a buddy of mine was setting up a haunted house at his place for October for Halloween, obviously. And we were out there, had it all dolled up, and you know, kids coming by doing their trick-or-treating. Well, the local fires fire department, which was um North Jackson, came by and their fire truck had it all blacked out. Um guys are dressed up, and I was like, man, what are these clowns doing? Um, and they stopped and talked to us for a little while, and um a bunch of old country guys, and they were like, Hey man, you ought to come by, you know. You you probably fit in good with us. And so I did the next week, and they gave me a pager um and some gear. Pager? Yeah. All right. I was like, all right, man, how to put this stuff together? Like, we'll show you later. Couldn't YouTube it then, could you? No YouTube, no, no Google. Um, and within a week, we got that pager goes off and it goes, gives an address and it's a uh residential fire. I'm like, cool, you know.

Joe Motes (Host) 7:22

Oh man.

SPEAKER_04 7:23

I don't know where I don't know where I'm going, you know, but I show up there, get there, and sure enough, it's just a little double-wide trailer um and it's burning. Yeah. I walk up to the guy, uh, what do you want me to do? He goes, Well, put your crap on, boy. Go in there and put the fire out. You know what? I'm putting all the stuff on.

Joe Motes (Host) 7:39

Trial by fire, huh? Literally. Like for real.

unknown 7:42

Literally.

SPEAKER_04 7:43

So yeah, so that was kind of my intro to man.

Joe Motes (Host) 7:45

Day one had to suck. I did not, I would not, that was not my day one after I got out of the military. I was trying to find my cubicle. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 7:56

No, if you want to stay out of that world. But but no, so I you know, fell in love with it. You know, it was like uh the adrenaline, I guess, is what led me to it. And then the brotherhood, you know. So uh man, that's been 20, 28 years ago.

Joe Motes (Host) 8:10

Nice. What what about jujitsu? What what had I mean, you obviously started a little later in life.

SPEAKER_04 8:14

Yeah, so I wrestled in high school.

Joe Motes (Host) 8:16

Oh, okay. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 8:17

So I know I had a little foundation, but um I I was a big runner. Um, I tried, you know, I ran pretty much every day, did several marathons, um, one ultra and a couple other things. And I actually tore um uh tended in my groin, so I had to quit running. And that's when I like, well, let me give this jujitsu a try. Because my son had mentioned he wanted to wrestle my youngest, uh, eight years old. Um that just kind of just fell into it, right?

Joe Motes (Host) 8:45

I mean, that's the that's the way a lot of us do, uh especially older. I mean, I was 42 when I started. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:51

So yeah, I guess I would have been 40, 48. Yeah.

Joe Motes (Host) 8:55

Yeah. All right, Justin, what about you, man?

Justin’s Path From Cars To Calls

Joe Motes (Host) 8:58

Well, what's what's Justin's origin story?

SPEAKER_03 9:00

My origin story for if we're talking about the fire department is when I got out of high school, I immediately went into a program um because I was I've always been a technical kind of person, like good with my hands and fix it stuff. So I decided I was gonna be a mechanic. So Gwynette Tech had a program where you are sponsored by a dealership. And at this point it was Boomershine Nissan. I don't know.

Joe Motes (Host) 9:23

Boomershine.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

So um I went all the way through the entire two-year program from Gwinnette Tech going and learning how to become a factory technician and uh how to fix Nissan cars. And when I got done, uh I was working and I just hated it. Like I I absolutely just didn't like it. So um I transferred to the parts department. So then you're kind of like in a a job where you're working at the parts counter and you're selling parts to people that walk in, and then sometimes you get to go drive. Like you get to drive wherever and deliver parts to other mechanic shops or whatever. So I was doing that and I had a a good bunch of friends that were there. Like like all the mechanics and all the guys in parts were just my buddies. We'd always hang out, all that kind of stuff. Well, one day, this this dude walks into the dealership and he comes up and he needs parts for his Nissan car, and he's got a fire department jacket on.

Joe Motes (Host) 10:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 10:19

And I was like, hey, that's pretty cool.

Joe Motes (Host) 10:21

You're swag works, man.

SPEAKER_03 10:22

Firefighter, huh? Well, actually, I'm a paramedic. And I was like, Oh, okay. I said, Well, what's the difference? And he goes, Well, I don't do the fire stuff, I do emergency medicine kind of stuff. I was like, Well, that sounds cool. So I said, you know, how did you get started and all that? And he goes, Well, I'm went to Gwynette Tech and went to EMT school and just started there. And I said, Huh. Well, so then I went I was already still going to Gwynette Tech at the time, so I pretty much just transferred my hopes stuff over and started going to EMT school at night. And um met a whole bunch of fun, cool people. Um, and I've worked for several different fire departments. I started off working for an ambulance service first and worked uh in Fulton County when uh Fulton uh an ambulance service took over the Fulton County contract. I worked there for about 11 months and then started for Hall County Fire Department, worked there for about three years, went to Barrow Fire Department, which is actually where I met Vinnie.

Joe Motes (Host) 11:18

Yeah, I was gonna ask, how did the two of you meet? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:21

We we met at Barrow. So I was working as a full-time firefighter at Barrow. Vinny was working as a part-time firefighter. So you don't have to be full-time fire. Oh, okay. No, it depends on the department, but uh at Barrow at that time would do part-time stuff. So Vinny would come in after his Gwynette shift and he would work at Barrow. And I we would work together sometimes then. Aaron Powell, so y'all really just can't kind of came up together and like Yeah, I mean different different paths, but essentially sticking with each other in in similar circles. And both of us were extremely different back then. We were both married to different people, didn't have all the kids that we have now. Like that story is way longer than what we have.

Joe Motes (Host) 12:00

But um, I only need to start a podcast for that.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

That one's uh that family then and now the family sagas for both of us because we know each other very well.

Joe Motes (Host) 12:11

Oh man, I could share some stories too, dude.

SPEAKER_03 12:12

Family tree is now a branch. Oh man. Shrub. But um so anyway, then I started working for Gwinnett County, and it wasn't really because of Vinny. Um it was he just happened to work there, but I started working for I I you know sometimes people move in within the fire department. So I went to Gwinnett because they're the biggest and the baddest that um and I started there in 2005. So I've been a firefighter for 26 years.

Joe Motes (Host) 12:36

So you started as an EMT though, right? Is that yeah?

SPEAKER_03 12:38

We're both EMTs and paramedics also.

Joe Motes (Host) 12:41

Oh, okay. So I get it. So i the it's it's the certification side of it. Okay, got it, got it.

SPEAKER_03 12:46

Yep. So it's it's essentially depending upon where you work, you have like some places don't have a firefighter who is also EMTs and paramedics. Most do now, but not always. Like so, but now if you work for Gwynette, you have to at least be an EMT.

Joe Motes (Host) 13:01

Yeah, I always see like the the fire trucks going down the road and then the ambulance is right behind them. Yes. And then sometimes you see that, sometimes you don't. But I guess that's probably because they've got a lot of EMT certified firefighters on that truck. Yeah, no, or the engine, I guess.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

Our guys rotate through all the different trucks. No, Vinny and I don't because we're in management. Yeah. But um, you know, when you're a normal firefighter at Gwyneth County, you'll you'll some days some days you'll ride the ambulance and some days you'll ride the engine, and sometimes you'll ride the squad, some days you'll ride the ladder truck, depending upon what station you're at.

Joe Motes (Host) 13:33

Got it, got it. And about jujitsu, what uh what had what what brought you into jujitsu?

Finding BJJ Through Family And Ironwolf

SPEAKER_03 13:38

Um, so I don't know uh if you know Jackson, my son Jackson. Um, you know, he's a competitive jujitsu guy or or you know, tries to be as much as he can.

Joe Motes (Host) 13:47

Does he train in Ironwolf?

SPEAKER_03 13:49

No. So he's he he's kind of a vagabond, man. He's all over the place. So he he originally started training at Gracie in Commerce.

Joe Motes (Host) 13:56

Oh. So I'm from Commerce. I haven't went down there to check them out yet, though.

SPEAKER_03 14:01

So his the so Andy uh runs that place down. Okay. So Andy is so he started his when Jackson was working at Chick-fil-A, he met a buddy of his, or he met a buddy at Chick-fil-A who was like, Man, you gotta try jiu-jitsu.

SPEAKER_01 14:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:12

Jackson's like, okay. So goes into Gracie, ends up absolutely loving it, becoming totally obsessed with it. Yeah. At 17 years old as an athletic kid, he's you know, did great. So um, you know, I see him getting better and he's training every single day, seven days a week, you know, going to multiple different gyms all over the place. And then he starts competing.

Joe Motes (Host) 14:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:35

And, you know, he's he wins a couple new breed competitions. He starts doing the jujitsu stuff.

Joe Motes (Host) 14:40

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

And uh actually me and Vinny and Jackson traveled to Chicago um, I think six months ago for Jackson's super fight. He didn't win, but um, it was still a really cool experience. So I think I had just started jujitsu then, but the reason I really started was because of Jackson and Vinny. Yeah like you know, he was like, you know, you got you gotta try you used to wrestle too, and you know, you just this is something and and it was almost like I've always loved martial arts, I've always loved being physical, I've always loved exercising, and you know, this is just like this blend of all that. Yeah, you know, that and I just I had to get my butt kicked, like I needed that. I need that, like desperately. You know, it just helps me with my mental sanity.

Joe Motes (Host) 15:22

Yeah, when I we have a lot of us when we talk about kind of what got us into jujitsu, it's like different but similar, right? We kind of either got into it because i I was the same way with one of my kids. Uh you know, uh I kind of took over Caleb then was doing contracts. I don't know if he does contracts now, but um and uh Cam did it and he he decided he wanted to do soccer, and I like Caleb a lot. Good dude. It's hard not to like Caleb and um yeah, man. Uh I just took it over try to class and that was it. I was hooked. Now I did I never did any martial arts. I've wrestled like maybe two months or a month in in high school and ninth grade and was like, no. Um I'm probably one of the least athletic people on the planet, and but there's just something about it, man, that's just addictive. And and I drunk a little bit more of the Kool-Aid than most, obviously, right? Um I mean, I started a podcast when I was a white belt dude. You know, so what do you know? Uh and um uh it but you both uh you so you work out of Gwinnett. Uh what what how did you find Ironwolf, right? Like, because Gwinnett has some awesome jujitsu places up in that area.

SPEAKER_04 16:43

Yeah, so uh one of the guys that uh worked in my battalion at the time, he's done jujitsu for several years and he does a lot of other uh Muay Thai and whatnot. Um he I I was looking for a place for my s kids initially.

Joe Motes (Host) 16:56

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 16:57

And he that's he brought up Caleb, he goes, man, he he's the best around. He goes, I live in Monroe, and if I had kids, I would go all the way to Browston like you know, for Caleb. So I well, cool, man. Let me check this guy out. And you know, like you said, Kate what's not to like about Caleb. He's just a really good dude, a really good teacher. And so we just we decided to plant our feet there.

Joe Motes (Host) 17:16

So Okay. Okay. I um yeah, I it for me it was just I Google searched. And that's where I started, you know. I started uh at Iron Wolf, I was uh two-striped white belt, and uh when I left because of a job, and then now full circle, man. I'm glad to be back there. Uh just jujitsu is different everywhere. Um and you you both travel with you you said with your son and stuff. Um I I don't think there's one place does it better than than the next. It's just you get different exposures, right? Like at Alliance, uh you don't start doing like leg stuff, like heavy leg stuff until like purple, maybe brown belt. And like you got like white belts are hill hooking and wrestlaking, man, and knee barring. I got knee barred by a white belt the other day there. And um it's just it's just crazy. It's it's you know, different environments, uh and and I'm thankful that that we've got a good environment there. And thank you both for for sharing that. Um so when we think about you know uh Vinny, you're a blue belt. Uh Justin, you're you're a white belt. Um maybe share a little bit uh Justin, kind of your first uh uh you know impressions uh uh of uh your training and your journey so far.

White Belt Chaos And Small Breakthroughs

Joe Motes (Host) 18:46

Um is it what you expected? Did you have any expectations? Uh I know uh uh do you remember your first time on the mat, right? Like I even remember that. Uh kind of talk me through a little bit about or talk us through kind of where you're at mentally here and in and then the journey so far.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Um yeah, so like my first class, um Vinny was there, you know, and and we rolled together. And you know, I'm just absolutely confused as you know, uh about now. Luckily I had some wrestling background, so I felt comfortable doing some stand-up and I'm you know felt comfortable, you know, getting pinned and and all of that kind of stuff. But in terms of from a technical aspect, you know, completely clueless as you know to what I was supposed to be doing. So, you know, obviously, you know, my first class, I tried to just overpower everybody and you're a strong dude, man. It's just overpower everybody and then you know, maybe something cool will go my way.

Joe Motes (Host) 19:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:52

Now six months later, I sort of feel the same way. Same thing kind of happened.

Joe Motes (Host) 19:57

Man, if you have the power, I don't think that ever goes away.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

So I I try to make conscious effort to use jujitsu, but um I'm like that s uh, what did you hit me with?

Joe Motes (Host) 20:07

You hit me with that sweep. Remember, was it last week? I didn't it was a butterfly.

SPEAKER_03 20:12

I did a nice sweep on Joe.

Joe Motes (Host) 20:14

Oh man, it was he uh I totally walked into it. I was like, oh my God.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

I didn't even see it. I think it was the first thing, maybe the first I know it was for sure the first sweep that I in my mind I was like, I'm gonna sweep Joe. Like you set up from technique, yeah. And I'm gonna do it this way, and then I'm gonna wait one second, and Joe hopefully does this. And then he did that, and I swept him, and I was like, wow.

Joe Motes (Host) 20:37

I'm glad I can provide that for you, man.

SPEAKER_03 20:40

What's funny is as soon as I swept Joe, I start celebrating. And then he starts celebrating with me.

Joe Motes (Host) 20:47

Oh yeah, man, it was awesome. It was I it I didn't even see it. Come on, I knew you had the hook in, but I was like, eh, I'm go okay. I still got a base, and then all of a sudden I didn't.

SPEAKER_03 20:56

I did absolutely nothing with it, but now what? Exactly. I was like, okay, well, I got that. So but um no, so you know it the jujitsu for me, it feels like um most like most classes are drinking from a fire hose, man. They're super overwhelming, but I absolutely love them, you know, and like I have to have more. I wish I can train more. I wish my body would let me train five days a week, six days a week, seven days a week, I wish I had that kind of time. And when I retire, which is in not too long, I I plan on increasing that um amount that I train because I really, really do enjoy it. Like it's it's great for me. But um it's just the the whole learning something new and getting to and getting exercise while you're playing a game is awesome. Oh yeah. Like I've I've you know, we work out a lot and and as with our job, you know, it's it's very imperative that we stay physically fit. Um, you know, in the as a as a fireman, you know, I've I've always kind of thought that, you know, it could be it could be my physical fitness could make the make or break either a fireman not making it out or a citizen not making it out of a burning structure. And I'm not Let that happen. So I do everything in my power to make sure that that that I can do that. Well, jujitsu is just this amazing fun game that's also exercise.

Joe Motes (Host) 22:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:11

As a great bonus and amazing workout. So but then the community too is also what gets you too. Like it's just a good bunch of people. And I typically go to the 12 o'clock, you know, so we have a couple of other firemen buddies that are in there. Um so now I'm like going to work out with my buddies.

Joe Motes (Host) 22:27

Is is Tre Trevor's a fireman too. He is, yeah. Trevor and gosh, that guy, huh?

SPEAKER_03 22:33

He'll murder you. Yeah.

Joe Motes (Host) 22:34

He is insane.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

Dunk.

unknown 22:36

Yep.

Joe Motes (Host) 22:36

Uh I just go, I mean, I think I'm gonna just start pulling them into side control because that's where I end up and just try to just hang on.

SPEAKER_03 22:45

But Trevor, uh, one thing you can do is, you know, he's also very much wanting to work in all positions. Just tell Trevor that um just say, hey, I want I want to to start in mountain. Yeah, I want to mountain and then just hold on.

Joe Motes (Host) 22:58

Yeah, hold on. I want to I want to start from mount cross-collar deep choke.

SPEAKER_03 23:03

Yes, I'm gonna start with a choke sunk in.

Joe Motes (Host) 23:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

That's it. Good luck, buddy. Yeah, yeah. But then Joey, but also uh Joey.

Joe Motes (Host) 23:10

Oh, I didn't know that about Joey. Joey, Joey has. Oh, no.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

Well, so he's also a competitive fisherman.

Joe Motes (Host) 23:23

Yeah, I saw I did see that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:26

I think his is more of a time and he doesn't live real close to Ironwolf, so I think it's that. But uh, it could be you know that he comes back.

Joe Motes (Host) 23:32

Well, he was strong. He was good, good, good role, man. I enjoyed training with him.

SPEAKER_03 23:35

Uh and then uh Jason Weiss. Oh, yeah, that's right. Jason. We all work for Gwyneth.

Joe Motes (Host) 23:40

Oh my god, it was so funny. I found out he he worked with you guys on the soccer field because he was my coach's uh son's coach. And uh I thought he was like IT or something. That makes sense. Like I don't know. He's like totally, he like totally doesn't look fireman guy, right? He we agree completely.

SPEAKER_03 24:01

Man, he's gotta hear that.

Joe Motes (Host) 24:02

Yeah, I thought for sure he was IT or maybe finance. I did not think fireman.

SPEAKER_04 24:10

But anyway, yeah.

Joe Motes (Host) 24:12

So he and I both got to get a laugh out of that too. Um so Vinny, let's talk a little bit about like where you're at now.

Blue Belt Changes The Game

Joe Motes (Host) 24:19

And I I can probably relate. You and I uh have been doing jujitsu about the same amount of time. We're both blue belts, and I can tell you, dude, like things changed when I became a blue belt. Like it's a real it's a real thing, right? Um round uh you hear people say that the upper belts take it easy on you into your blue belt. I don't I didn't necessarily experience that, but things for me are starting to make more sense in the in the rounds and I'm I'm more aware. Talk talk us through a little bit about where you're at in your journey and if maybe that's true for you too.

SPEAKER_04 24:55

Yeah, I would agree. Um I'm not gonna be able to articulate it as well as Justin, but yeah, I think um, you know, the big step to the blue belt, everybody tries, you know, talks about once you get blue belt, your your your career's over as a jiu-jitsu practitioner.

Joe Motes (Host) 25:09

But um Oh yeah, people leave at blue belt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:14

Um, but I I found that the lower belts are harder on me and the upper belts, because now the lower belts, you know, the white belts are got something to prove. Oh, I got a beat up my upper belt. Smash this blue belt. That's what Justin every time we roll. Yeah. I'm like, Dad gummit, this dude just wants to choke me out, you know? Yeah. Um but yeah, you know, it's it's you know, I spent the first six months as a white belt as that spazzy white belt guy, you know, just trying to prove that I belonged and I did not belong. Um I'm just getting smashed and now I feel like it's more more of a chess game. You know, it's like j Justin said, you know, I can like all right, this is what I want to do. And so I got to wait on that position and just trying to just trying to play more of a chess game and not just react to you know everybody else or just be defensive the entire game. Yeah, which has been tough because I want to win. You know, every time I get I get out there, I'm I got that, you know, I gotta beat this guy mentality. And a lot of times that'll blur my my strategic planning that I had, you know. Like I'm like, ah I just I just gotta be patient, gotta be patient. No, I can't, I can't, because he's gonna get ahead of me.

Joe Motes (Host) 26:25

So it's just yeah, I I've started um so I I saw this uh I don't know if it was a meme. No, no, you know what it was? Have you ever seen that book uh by Salo Salo Hebera? I can't remember. It's called uh the jujitsu university. Have y'all seen that book? Yeah, uh you've seen it, right? Like you know, some people say it's like the jujitsu Bible.

SPEAKER_04 26:49

And um I actually have it downloaded on my phone.

Joe Motes (Host) 26:51

Oh, that's so cool. I didn't know you could get it downloaded. Um but I have mine all tabbed out and stuff. Um and then Bluebelt, if you remember in that book, it's about escapes. So I uh I tell myself this, I'm working a lot on escapes, but I'm working a lot on escapes because I still need to escape a lot of times. Um but you know, things I learned as a white belt and fundamentals class, um and alliance is real structured, right? Like their fundamentals, like it's good and it it can be bad at times, but like you get your fundamentals concrete down. And I am able now to kind of understand, all right, yeah, this is for the scissor sweep, this is why you pull that sleeve all the way back and put your elbow on the map. Because if I don't, like I'm not loading either one of you guys on top of me ever, because if I mess up, you're amount and I'm done. Um but I don't have to if I I do that, right? And that's I understand the reason. I think my point is is as a blue belt, I'm starting to understand the why of some of the techniques and stuff like that. So um, so since you you know your brothers and uh you know, the firefighter life and and in jujitsu on the map, like you know, you're

Firefighter Jiu Jitsu Meetups And Competing

Joe Motes (Host) 28:11

close. Do you do you guys kind of talk and train outside of uh of uh ironwolf you know conversations after training?

SPEAKER_03 28:20

We do um we have a uh another group that we roll with that's so a couple of them actually. There's a Metro Atlanta Firefighters Jiu Jitsu Club. What? I haven't gotten to go to one of those yet, but Vinny's been to a couple of them. And then there's a Gwinnette County Jiu Jitsu Club. Like that's just the Gwynette dudes. And usually there's some other and yeah, there's a gym in Sugar Hill that uh allows us to come there, and I'm I'm sure Caleb would too. We just haven't got it together to ask him and get it all together where those guys would come in and and we would do a you know, there's you know, usually about 10 folks um of varying degrees of you know jujitsu experience and but they're all you know like one at dudes or just associated with. And uh we we get to go roll with them. We usually do like once a month or once every two months. Yeah. One of the one of the newly promoted captains is named Ben, it's a purple belt at I can't remember where, somewhere in is it Cobb County or out of it? Somewhere somewhere out that way. Yeah. And so he is like the organizer and puts, you know, we have a group text and all that stuff. So like next week. That's cool. We have a we have a training coming up. So and usually the ironwolf guys do good when uh when we roll with them. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:25

So yeah. And actually in September, we're uh Monday Night Garage in Atlanta's holding a fireman versus police out there September 12th.

Joe Motes (Host) 29:35

Man, dude, we need to put that in the notes. We gotta get that out there, man.

SPEAKER_04 29:40

Are you gonna sign up? You're signed up. I don't think I'll be ready, but you're signed up to compete. Yeah.

Joe Motes (Host) 29:44

Oh, you are you're still dealing with your arm? Your arm injury, huh? Yeah. What was that? What what popped up?

SPEAKER_04 29:50

It was the pop tendon.

Joe Motes (Host) 29:51

Yeah, but you didn't have to do surgery, right?

SPEAKER_04 29:53

Um, I chose not to.

Joe Motes (Host) 29:55

So but they wanted to. Um there Well, they always want to. Yeah, that's that's the thing. Um, and I'm gonna be superstitious and knock on wood here. I haven't had any injuries that took me off for a time. Um I had a uh a friend of mine, we were rolling pretty hard, and he got it, he'd never tapped me before, and he he got me in a. I don't know, do y'all know the esteema lock? Do y'all know what that is? Where you're standing, it's like a foot lock, but standing. I guess you could do it down on your knees too. But he got it and he knew he had it, and he just got excited because he knew I was if he knew he had it, and he just cracked all the way back. And let me tell you, the entire top of my left foot was bruised and swollen, just like a strip of blue and black. And man, I was a little mad. I of course I didn't, you know, I was just like, really, dude? Like, we're buddies. But uh yeah, he uh unfortunately doesn't train anymore, but uh good guy. But that was the only injury I I I've had so far. And uh I'm I'm lucky, lucky for that.

SPEAKER_03 31:07

So Well, so I don't know if you did you know that Benny got injured rolling with me.

Joe Motes (Host) 31:10

Oh, I know that. I wasn't gonna bring that up, but if you want if you want to dive into that, we'd have talked about it.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

His kids are mad at me still. Yeah.

Joe Motes (Host) 31:18

I don't even know what you did. Did you like some kind of armor?

SPEAKER_03 31:20

It was a crappy arm drag.

Joe Motes (Host) 31:21

It was an arm drag.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

It was just an arm drag. Really? Yeah. Like and then and the the funny thing is, do you remember I think Caleb was training for one of his competitions? So he was in the whole 10-minute round. Um, it was that week. Remember the 10-minute rounds. Yeah. So we're doing the 10-minute rounds, and Vinny and I have been training. And and before the 10-minute rounds, we were doing like 30-second rounds. Like we were we were hardcore that day. So, you know, I was already whooped. So I looked at Vinny, I was like, hey man, let's go. But I'm going to be we I literally verbalized. I said, I'm going to take a 10-minute round pace. Yep. Like and he goes, fine. That sounds good.

Joe Motes (Host) 32:00

Yeah, you can't, you can't go all out together.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

So me and him were just like, we we were literally just kind of doing a stand-up, just kind of get just getting feel. I mean, we've rolled together plenty of times. So it was nothing, it was nothing weird, it was nothing hyper aggressive.

Joe Motes (Host) 32:14

Leave that in there, guys. Yeah, we're gonna leave that in there. That's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 32:18

The uh it was not like a, you know, we weren't going full tilt boogie or any of that kind of stuff. And it just it just happened. It's very crazy.

Joe Motes (Host) 32:27

And that's how honestly that's how these things happen. Yep. You just, you know, uh like it happened. I uh I did almost tweak my knee one time because uh there was a uh I was rolling with someone um I think they maybe had uh just a few months under the belt or 30 days, and uh it got me in a in some kind of a almost like an X-Gar, single X lock, you know, how they bite down on your leg. And I was I was like, okay, I can go to mount. Or you there's a way you can kind of tuck and roll if you do a forward roll and you end up with their foot. But I tucked and I realized I was going over their far shoulder, and if I would have win, it would have just exploded my knee. And I I was going and Hodrigo yelled. He was like, No, Joe. Like he's big guy, big Brazilian, you know, broken English guy, guy. And it was all it like it scared me so much, like because he yelled, and I stopped because I was about to he knew what was, but I thought that that was good awareness from him as a coach, you know. But I remember that day. I mean, I just I saw you fall back. Y'all are both standing, right? Right. Yeah, it's just crazy, crazy, crazy. Yeah. Well, let's transition.

Under Pressure: Why Choose More Stress

Joe Motes (Host) 33:44

Uh so this episode uh is gonna be titled Under Under Pressure, and I want us to spend some time on that. Um, and I think this is the part that a lot of listeners I hope find interesting is uh you know, firefighting, uh and you're probably gonna have to pull back into your non-leadership days, right? Because I know you're both in in leadership now, but it already asks a lot of physically and mentally, emotionally from you. I would imagine there's things up here that just don't go away uh that you may have seen over the years. And then on your own time, uh you walk into a room where people are trying to kind of control and exhaust you here in jujitsu and expose every mistake you you you make. So I guess kind of the question is is why uh we or you would choose something that would kind of add more pressure, right? That's the overall uh theme. So my first question under that is is did either of you underestimate how mentally demanding jujitsu would be? And maybe Vinny, you you you go with yours and your perspective first on that.

SPEAKER_04 35:46

Um I mean, if I'm being honest, I don't think I underestimated it. Um you know, it's no secret that part of our part of our job is, you know, being able to be calm and cool collective under the chaos, be able to, you know, mentally still be fully engaged knowing that you know massive pandemonium is going on around us. So um I think to an extent that's that's the game, right? You want you want to be able to you want to be able to be the best version of you when the shit hits the fan. You know, you want to be able to get in there and just you know this is where I thrive. And that that's what I thrive with.

Joe Motes (Host) 36:24

I like that.

SPEAKER_04 36:25

Um so I think going to jujitsu, I knew it was gonna be more of that. Um obviously a little more controlled, you know, um than you know, an emergency scene or something like that. So yeah, so I think that was kind of my expectation is I knew it would be kind of go hand in hand with my day to job, so to speak.

Joe Motes (Host) 36:42

So Yeah, so it was kind of like sharpens the sword, right? Yeah, yeah. What what about you, Justin? Any any anything surprise you about it?

SPEAKER_03 36:50

Um No, no, like I I I really like what Vinny said. You know, from our job perspective, it's it's extremely important that we remain calm in the worst possible situation. And that actually pisses people off. And what I say is like, I mean, imagine you know, you're there and your family member is having some sort of a of major emergency, right? And I'm just sitting there stonefaced, like it don't bother me. Now that pisses people off. Like, do you not care? You know, would you rather me be freaking out?

Joe Motes (Host) 37:31

Yeah, they look at it like you may lack empathy or something, which is not the case.

SPEAKER_03 37:35

It's just all business. It's just it's just all business. Like, would you rather me be freaking out? Because if I'm freaking out, I'm not gonna be doing them any good. So we're gonna be professional. And sometimes professional comes off as a little bit cold. Right. Um, because it's it's when we say it to ourselves all the time, it's not my emergency. It's not. I am there to fix your emergency, it's not my emergency. If it was my emergency, I'd be freaking out. But would you rather have a paramedic firefighter freaking out? Because you wouldn't. Yeah, I don't think it's a good one. You wouldn't. That would that would do worse. So but it does, you know, people that are not in that in in our profession, you know, anyway. So the way that I've kind of parallel that too, first of all, jujitsu is my fun time. Like that is my fun time, buddy. I'm having a good time, I'm in a good mood.

Joe Motes (Host) 38:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:17

Um the competitive drive for me is I don't I don't mind losing. It it's good for my ego to get busted back. Like I need that. Like I need to realize that I suck. Like that helps me, you know, and that's one of the absolute treasures that I've found from jujitsu is going in there and it doesn't matter if it's Joe or Vinny or Trevor or whoever beats me, I'm okay with that. I'm totally fine with it.

SPEAKER_01 38:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:45

And um, because I'm just there to learn, I'm there to get better. I want to get better, and I can't get better until I get beat four billion times. Yeah, 100%.

Joe Motes (Host) 38:54

I I love that.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

Yeah, you know, every time you guys beat me, I get this much better, you know.

Joe Motes (Host) 39:00

I remember listening to Hodger Gracie um talking. Uh I had subscribed, I used to be a subscriber to Hodger Gracie TV, and like he kind of compared, he said something similar to what Michael Jordan said, right? Like all people see is the Hodger Gracie now, but they didn't see coming up in the Gracie family the literally hundreds, or he didn't say hundreds, but he said thousands or whatever times he was submitted or matches he lost, you know, local in Brazil, right? Um and back then they were saying the Gracies were still going around to gyms and challenging people, right? The Gracie Challenge. And like that that's right, a hundred percent. You need those I think I think it makes us better practitioners. Absolutely if we come out. I I remember I I I don't I I can't remember the first time I won a role. I can remember my first time on the map, but I can't remember you know who I submitted or what I it had to be a choke, but um I just can't I'm sitting here trying to think of it and I can't remember it, but I know for a fact it didn't happen for a long, long, long time. And I I remember feeling uh a time where man, maybe jujitsu is not for me, right? But now, like you see the value, and it's fun. It's fun. As a matter of fact, there's an episode I'm gonna be recording uh coming up, uh solo episode about keeping the fun in jujitsu because that's what it is. And there's you know, it brings me to another question I wanted to ask in this segment is uh you both work out, you're both fit, you're both strong, uh, you know, uh big jack dudes, right? Uh what do you what do you get though out of jujitsu that you don't get out of kind of working out? For me, it's the cardio. I've never

Cardio Shock And Training Smarter

Joe Motes (Host) 40:52

ever in my life experienced that kind of uh cardio. And I was a paratrooper most of my career, and you know we run, right? We up and down uh Ardens at Fort Bragg and uh like it, but it's it's different. So so what maybe physically do you get out of out of jujitsu? Um different.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

I got a funny story.

Joe Motes (Host) 41:16

Yeah, let's hear it.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

Okay. So I have to I have to give you a little structure on how the fire department works. So at this point in time, I'm a lieutenant. So I'm one rank below where I am now. I I'm a captain now, so I was a lieutenant. And I was a lieutenant at station number 11. Okay, so that's on Jimmy Carter Boulevard.

Joe Motes (Host) 41:38

Oh yeah, I know exactly where they are.

SPEAKER_03 41:40

We call it the tough house because it's a busy, a busy place. Well, so Vinny gets promoted to battalion chief, okay, which is what he that's his rank that he is now.

Joe Motes (Host) 41:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:50

Okay, so now Vinny is getting sent to be the battalion chief, and station eleven is one of his stations now. So Vinny's gonna be my boss. Okay. So me and the captain that's at Station 11, his name's John McGriff, good buddy of mine and Vinny's. We're like, okay, Mercantante's coming down. So we like, and we know that he's a PT stud. Like we we know this. We're like, we gotta come on, we gotta come up with something that's gonna, you know, that he's gonna that he's gonna appreciate.

Joe Motes (Host) 42:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:20

So, you know, it's the summertime. We come up with this workout that is absolutely awful. There's like 15 different stations, and as like you get a minute per station to do like, I don't know, 30 push-ups. And when you're done with the 30 push-ups, if you have any more of your minute left, you have to start doing burpees. And you don't stop circulating through these stations until you're done with your burpees. And it was a hundred burpees, which is that's a workout by itself.

Joe Motes (Host) 42:42

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:43

Yeah.

Joe Motes (Host) 42:43

So I do four burpees here. I'm out of breath. Oh man, burpees are terrible. They're terrible. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:49

So we we do this workout and everybody's out there because he's brand new chief. Like, we're not gonna, you know, we gotta impress the new chief, right? So he's out there with us, big smile on his face, sweating, you know, he's having a good time. And uh we get done and he's like, so what do we all want to do now? So uh luckily we ended up playing uh, what was it, frisbee golf. Not frisbee golf, ultimate frisbee. So we start playing ultimately.

Joe Motes (Host) 43:18

Oh, I remember ultimate frisbee.

SPEAKER_03 43:21

Like we just had a we just had the best time. And that's just a fun story. It really has nothing to do with what what jujitsu the level of of jujitsu exercise for me, especially initially, before I learned that you can you need to dial it back.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 43:36

You need to dial it way back, um, was ten times harder than that workout. Yeah. You know, like when I would leave, I was absolutely disappointed. I feel better now. I'm like, I'm learning, I'm you know, now that I'm like around six months, I'm learning that you know, you don't need to be at level 100 all the time. Yeah. You need to save that.

Joe Motes (Host) 43:54

The breathing. And someone told me, and I can't remember, it may have been hot or you go. He told me, you know, move when uh of what was he said? Basically, what it is move when you have to, right? Move with a goal in mind. You know, if you're stuck in side control, don't start frailing and using energy you don't have. Figure out, okay, what am I gonna do to get out of this, and then start moving. Yep. But yeah, 100%. It's it's cardio, like you can't you can't explain it to someone. People will say, I'm a runner, I'm a boxer, I'm a you know, okay, bro. I I recruit people, I sit behind a desk, I don't know what to tell you. It's different, man. It's different, it's different.

SPEAKER_03 44:33

And I can tell you, jujitsu has like we still do crazy station workouts, but that's just part of what we do. Um and doing jujitsu for now six months has vastly increased my work capacity.

Joe Motes (Host) 44:48

Um for that's a good point. And it's

SPEAKER_03 44:52

It's changed the way that I exercise. Now I worry more like we were lifting real heavy, you know, and and doing a lot of like overload type stuff. And we still still do some of that, but now I'm especially approaching 50. I'm much more focused on flexibility, cardio, um, you know, strength in my core, you know, you know, stuff to keep my back healthy, like all of that kind of stuff, you know, and hips, you know, you know, all that, and much less of, you know, let's see if we can go deadlift 450 pounds, 10 years, you know, that kind of stuff. So all of my exercise currently is now changed to be make me better at jujitsu.

Joe Motes (Host) 45:35

Yeah. Yeah. Vina, let me ask you this, and I think that's great, uh, Justin. Thanks, thanks for sharing. I um so we're talking about pressure and discomfort and stuff like that. Like you're a blue belt now.

What Keeps Them Coming Back

Joe Motes (Host) 45:48

Um like what kept you coming back? And you know, uh I I'll be honest with you. There was one point in my career that I uh after I had made blue belt and I was still getting killed, I was like, I felt like I'm not learning anything. Like it's a it's jujitsu for me, right? And I almost got those blue belt blue blues and and took a break. And that's the worst thing you can do is take a break. Like just a break. Um but I didn't, and I came back and stuff like that. But there were times where I thought, like, is the juice worth the squeeze? Right. I'll tell you, for me, it was the community, right? It was the people and it was my thing. You know, I got five boys, married, uh, work hard. That's what brought me back. But what what kept you coming back all the way to where you are now to Blue Belt and continues to bring you back into this kind of suck fest, right?

SPEAKER_04 46:42

Um I I if I'm being honest, I'd have to say my kids. Oh, cool. That'd be the biggest motivator for me, because you know, I try to I don't always do a great job, but I try to lead by example. And you know, I I've always appreciated them, hey, if you start something, you gotta see it through. You know, it won't once you commit to something, that's it. Um so sometimes that's the only reason I go in there, just because I'm like, crap, man, then you know, if I take today off, then I'm like, oh, okay, I it's cool to take a day off, you know. Um and then other days, you know, I would get set up a point, like you're saying, where it's just man, I'm just getting smashed every flipping time I go out there. And then, you know, two, three weeks go by and I get you know, I get one, I choke somebody out. I'm like, Yeah, yeah. Sparkle back in my eye.

Joe Motes (Host) 47:23

Yeah, it's a good feeling, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:26

So you know it's been d different, different things, you know, different uh things that brought me back. Yeah. Yeah. Kids primarily though.

Joe Motes (Host) 47:34

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I um uh it's hard to explain what the community means to me, and I think it's again one of the reasons I started a podcast because it's just like talking to people and meeting people and um I made some of the strongest uh friendships. You know, one of my strongest uh jujitsu friendships, it's funny, is a guy I competed with at White Belt, very first competition, guy by the name of David McWilliams, and he uh he has a BJJ Charleston podcast, which is pretty cool. Good guy, trains at Gracie. And uh I remember my first competition. All I wanted to do, didn't care if I won won or lost, I just didn't want to lose. If I lost, I didn't want to lose fast. Dude beat me in like 23 seconds, and here's why. Right? Because we uh he gets me in close guard. I wish I could forget this, but this is one of those things just stay with yeah, I was in close guard, and uh he he got me in close guard, he pulled me in close guard with a deep collar. I mean, I his thumb, his thumb was all the way in the back of my neck, that deep. And you know what's coming, right? Uh you know he's gonna bring that other arm. And I knew it. And even the week before that at Alliance, we were working cross uh preventing the cross-collar choke from close guard. And all I did, I reached back and put both my hands on his knees to push his legs down. He was just like right in there, man. And I remember when he sunk it in and thinking, why did I not block that hand? But anyway, he and I are really good friends, and that's kind of my point. Like you make the oddest friendships, you know.

SPEAKER_04 49:16

That's a really good point. You know, I'd be remiss if I didn't mention the the group that Justin mentioned, our fire department group. You know, that's definitely kept me coming back to yeah. Um, Ben specifically, he he's got he's created a chat group, uh text group for all of us. So he's constantly, you know, throwing plugs out there and trying to trying to get more firemen um involved in in the jujitsu world. So yeah, that's been the community's been awesome.

Joe Motes (Host) 49:40

What has kept you both in this firefighter lifestyle

Brotherhood And Mental Health On The Job

Joe Motes (Host) 49:47

for so long? I mean, I'll tell you, I I my hat's off to you. There's there's certain jobs I can do, I know I could do, but there's certain jobs I wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole and firefighter, police officer, you know, medical like doctor, something like that. Like they're just things you see and and experience in on any given day. You know, I have enough of that from the military. I don't think I'd want it from day to day, but what what's kept you both in it? That's a big question. I get it.

SPEAKER_03 50:16

Um You know it's not it's not so different than what's keeping you around jujitsu is the community because there is a there is a absolute bond. Um and and you guys are both military guys and you get this part. I I can't speak from that, but um men specifically bond under very difficult circumstances. So at the fire department, sometimes those difficult circumstances are fires or terrible calls that we run. Um but most of the time we have to simulate it. So it's during training and really difficult workouts. And you know, you create lifelong friends when you go out and drag a tire across the parking lot in the middle of the summer, you know, repeatedly, or push sleds or do burpees or or whatever, and then you know, everybody's sitting around sweating, and then you just start chit-chatting and cutting up, and then boom, you get a call. And then, you know, and then half the guys at the station leave while the other half cook dinner and then they come back and it's a family. It's a family. So that that's what it's about. And that's who you lean on when when the the tough calls are, you know, are coming. And you know, and we have a really good network of support. You know. And um but it's mostly us, you know. But we also have external networks. Like our where we work is is really good about recognizing mental health type stuff and giving plenty of uh resources to draw on.

Joe Motes (Host) 51:43

Um Has that changed over the years?

SPEAKER_03 51:45

Absolutely. Yeah, yeah.

Joe Motes (Host) 51:46

It was such a I bet you've seen a big change in that. I used to just suck it up. That's it, right? That's right. Some of your old chiefs were probably like I would imagine your first chiefs uh inning were just like, yeah, no, go.

SPEAKER_03 51:58

No, they just light a cigarette, you know, in the station, light a cigarette.

Joe Motes (Host) 52:01

They're the ones smoking over the gas.

SPEAKER_03 52:03

I don't know what your problem is, you know. And no, nowadays it's way different. Yeah. We like I mean, like we're since we're both in management, that's one thing that we really are very aware of and we we try to pay attention. We're constantly watching our crews to make sure that they're fit. You know, because that's one thing I I will say that the younger generation of firefighters, I can't speak for when I was a younger generation firefighter because I didn't have that perspective, but they're softer. And I don't mean like they're not physically fit. They're physically a bunch of them are animals. Yeah. Like, but um they're softer, ten more tenderhearted, which is not a bad thing. It's just it's a bad thing or it's a tough thing to to learn, negotiate, and and figure out this new career path for these. You know, when I just lost one the other day, uh, he quit. He quit. Fantastic guy, um, you know, physically fit, smart, um, cool to be around, you know, good rookie in the station, did everything he was supposed to do, and he came in my office and he said, Cap, I gotta leave. Yeah. I was like, What's up, man? He goes, I this just not for me. And and that was it. And I tried talking him out of it and I said, Hey, you know, here's all these resources. Can I offer you something different? You know, you could do a different job within the fire department. He was done, man. He went back to the movie theater. So um, it's just not for everybody.

Joe Motes (Host) 53:20

But yeah, I mean, at the end of the day, you can't like you you can make improvements, but there's some professions you can't drum down to where it's easy. And that's gotta be firefighting, you know? Because at the end of the day, your job is to run into the worst situation imaginable. Can't see, can't breathe, I mean hear, got a fire all around you. Yeah. What about you, Vinny? What what's kept you in the firefire life?

SPEAKER_04 53:51

Yeah, I'd have to say a lot of the same things. You know, after 28 years, you know, six kids, two marriages.

SPEAKER_01 53:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:59

You know, I you know, a lot of these guys have seen me at the height of my, you know, career and also at the lows, you know, the um, you know, we talked about the mental health aspect of it. You know, once upon a time it's n not not such a thing, you know. Yeah, you know, like we said, suck it up buttercup.

Joe Motes (Host) 54:16

Yeah, that's a big part of your career, probably like that. Like I'm we're talking this is recent.

SPEAKER_04 54:20

But just been the last decade that really started to be hypersensitive to the mental health aspect of it. Yeah. Um, so you know, there's been times where I, you know, struggled to, you know, get up and go to work in the mornings and you know, you know, try to be there for my whole career. I've you know, never been late in 28 years. And I try to be there at six o'clock every morning. We job doesn't start till seven. Um, and those guys know, hey, if you know, if any's not there at six, six fifteen, something's up. And yeah, it's like clockwork. You start getting text, hey man, you good? Hey, you know, that's like, man, man.

Joe Motes (Host) 54:54

It's good checking, it does give a flip, you know.

SPEAKER_04 54:56

Yeah. So that's that's the little things. It's like, you know, uh, that and the the whole um lead by example. Yeah. Which I've not always do very good a very good example is, you know, I I've done some pretty crappy things in my career, um, both at work and at home, but um, you know, try to come back to the all right, you know, people are looking at me. Let's try to be the bet better version of myself today than I was yesterday. And yeah, um, I guess that's what's kept me.

Joe Motes (Host) 55:20

I th I think that's a great transition into uh we got about 10 minutes here before Unfortunately Library starts to close starts its closing

Jiu Jitsu As A Reset Button

Joe Motes (Host) 55:28

procedures. Uh and I wanna I think this is a good opportunity to transition into uh kind of leaving the job at the door and the uh the role maybe jujitsu plays in that and and June's uh what is it, men's mental health month, right? Um, I want to talk uh uh uh about the jujitsu and kind of ironwolf maybe as as your reset. And I want to to do that without asking maybe either of you to share any details from calls or anything that maybe you want to keep private, but you keep uh you know answers as general as you want, but what I'm interested in sh uh having you share is whether jujitsu gives you a place uh uh for your for your own, maybe help with your mental health, become kind of a student again, brings a sense of for me or a sense of presence, maybe it does for you. You know, can the question the initial question is can jujitsu help you mentally close out a difficult shift or a difficult kind of moment maybe?

SPEAKER_03 56:38

Absolutely. Yep, yeah, like you get this little anxiety ball. I feel like it like I do, like I get this little anxiety ball, and um every time I leave jujitsu, it's no longer there. You know, um so and and you know, every every shift we don't go in and see the most terrible things. It's not like that. It's just not like the TV slogan. Yeah, no, it's definitely not like TV. Like those we call them career calls. You know, the career calls only come every so often, you know, where that's one I'm gonna remember forever. You know, most of them it's gone. Like you can't remember any of it. But you know, you ask me what we did yesterday and I won't be able to tell you because it's just routine. But yes, 100% for me, jujitsu is a release of anxiety and tension and all that stuff. It's absolutely nothing but fun for me. It's my fun time and it's my like hobby and blow off steam, all of the above, and 100% essential for my you know, keeping my rudder, you know, straight.

Joe Motes (Host) 57:44

Yeah. Yeah. I and you're both leaders. So uh Justin, you're captain, right? And then you're a say what is it again?

SPEAKER_04 57:54

Battalion chief.

Joe Motes (Host) 57:55

Battalion chief. Give me that military ranks. What is that? Um it'd be like uh because army and marine ranks are s kind of the same.

SPEAKER_04 58:01

Except So we you know, we've got five battalions within our our department. Yeah. Um and three shifts. So you have a division which would be like your CO, and then you'd have five XOs.

Joe Motes (Host) 58:13

Gotcha. So just that puts it in perspective. Uh so this question's for you. Does jujitsu well actually could be for both of you, both leaders. Uh does jujitsu give you a place to kind of become a student again? Like because now you're not the top dog, right? Right? You're not the like you show up and it seems like everybody knows more than you, right? Um give you a place to kind of grow in something new?

SPEAKER_04 58:39

I think so. And I and I, you know, I don't know that I've really looked at it that way. Um, but yes, that is a good point. I it's good being a student again and not um maybe the person that people come to for with problems. But honestly, it's been a good, you know, some of the younger guys coming and rolling with us and they're like, oh, I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna take this old guy out. And it's been great to smash him. It's like, yeah, this little guy's still got it. That's been great for me.

Joe Motes (Host) 59:07

Hey, I gotta tell you, I gotta tell you, the first time I rolled with you, I was like, okay, he's you know, he's he's he he's he's strong, he's he's he's he's tough. Uh but I bet like I bet he's not gonna be as as agile and as like his his agility's not gonna be suit. It was insane, man. I I get what you're saying. I get what you're saying.

SPEAKER_04 59:28

But yeah, it is be a student somewhere also. So that is yeah.

Joe Motes (Host) 59:32

Yeah. Justin, what about you?

SPEAKER_03 59:35

I mean, yeah, definitely learning something new. Um, I always want to learn something new. And you know, him and I are both in our twilight of our careers at the fire department, and then I mean I'm not done with it, but I'm looking forward to not having to go do that anymore. Like, I'm I'm looking, you know, our retirements are close. So I'm getting that sort of itchy feeling. And I'm thinking, like, what do I want to do with my time once I retire? Yeah. It's still gonna work. I'm still gonna find something else to do.

Joe Motes (Host) 1:00:04

You got the knife business. I got the knife business. J uh JM Forged is right.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:08

Dude, yes. Yeah, I've been doing that for a long time.

Joe Motes (Host) 1:00:10

That is so cool. I went on your website a couple of times, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:13

Man, I appreciate it. But yeah, you know, so that's another hobby, you know, something that I've tried to develop a skill in doing. And it's not, I mean, it's definitely not like jujitsu, but it's extraordinarily frustrating because you're just standing there in your shop working on something completely frustrated. So those are the same as being in jujitsu, where you're like standing in that room and you're frustrated at yourself for not doing better. You know. And um, but um yeah, it it definitely um I think we got off topic. I'm trying to remember what what my point was.

Joe Motes (Host) 1:00:44

But um, just uh just around um student, you know, jujitsu that learning mentality.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:53

Love learning new stuff and trying to I like to obsess about things. Um and this is just a really cool thing to obsess about because I also love the whole self-defense aspect of it. Yeah. We have like it's a fun chess game, but essentially you're learning how to murder people with no weapons. Yeah. Super cool, you know, to me. Like I'm like, I could choke somebody.

Joe Motes (Host) 1:01:14

You know, yeah, and it also gives you like, hey, I can take, you know, you don't realize I can say this. Growing up, I was in a lot of fights. I was a horrible teenager, had a horrible home life, stuff like that. I fought a lot. Uh, and almost all my fights ended up on the ground. It'd been awesome. I'd probably take a lot less beatings if I knew jujitsu. But uh yeah, it's really cool to learn that you can, you know, control somebody.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:37

And it really does go hand in hand with the fire service because you know, we deal with people all the time, and sure, and over our career, there's several fights that we've been in with patients and oh yeah, like where you had to restrain them without harmony.

Joe Motes (Host) 1:01:48

Yeah, right? Yeah, we can't. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:49

Well, that's yes, we cannot hurt.

Joe Motes (Host) 1:01:50

Yeah, you can't start like roundhouse kicking them. No, but you may want to. You can control them. That's it.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:55

That's it. Like, I don't understand why PD is not like your required. Exactly. You know, or whatever.

Joe Motes (Host) 1:02:02

I think I think law enforcement, maybe first responders, and even military, you need to have some kind of i I'm not saying you got a big black belt. No, but you need at least the basis. Fundamentals, foundations, fundamentals, fundamentals, like a mountain escape.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:18

How do you get up out from underneath somebody? Yep, you know, um, proper choke techniques, like things like that would be super, super helpful.

Joe Motes (Host) 1:02:26

100%, 100%. Well, gentlemen, we are at time. Uh listen, man, thank you both for coming

Advice For Starting Later In Life

Joe Motes (Host) 1:02:33

and being on and I've been excited. Uh, you know, Justin, you and I have been talking about this episode for a while. Yes, sir. And um uh a kind of final thought really quick from both of you. Uh for first responders out there, fire fire uh firefighters or just anybody wanting to maybe start jujitsu a little bit later in life, like we all did. What would you say to them?

SPEAKER_04 1:02:56

Vinny go start now and just uh work on being one percent better every day. That's it. Love it. Love it. Justin, what do you got?

SPEAKER_03 1:03:04

I couldn't have said it better myself. Yeah, just get in a class and just leave your ego at the door and just get ready to learn. It's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:15

Yeah, or bring your ego and somebody'll smash you.

Joe Motes (Host) 1:03:18

Yeah, that's another thing. You you may bring it, but you won't leave with it.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:22

No, you'll end up being choked up by somebody who looks like he works in IT. Which is like I love I love rolling with Will. Like you look at Will and Will's like, you know, you look at Will and I don't know what Will does. I have no idea what Will does. Let's say he does I do IT.

Joe Motes (Host) 1:03:35

Does he do IT? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:37

I don't know, but he looks like he has IT. You know, like him and Jason Wees look like they do IT. You know what I'm saying? It will put you right to sleep above it.

Joe Motes (Host) 1:03:45

100%, 100%. Well, thank you both. Let's and uh and thank you all uh to all the listeners uh for joining the 50th episode or listening to the 50th episode. Uh you know, uh what's the best way for listeners to contact you guys? Uh Instagram, yeah, things like that.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:02

And social media.

Joe Motes (Host) 1:04:03

And Justin, we're gonna put the website up for JM Forge. Justin makes some really killer knives. And um, you know, Vinny, happy belated birthday, and and to you both. Uh looking forward to your to your retirements and and training more with you at Ironwolf. So uh yeah, thanks. Thanks for being here.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:22

Appreciate it, appreciate it.

Intro/Outro 1:04:30

A big thanks to all of our listeners, especially today's Insightful Cast for sharing their BJT knowledge and tail. If you've not been admineled and brought to another hungry for Melbourne, get to the ground, drop a review and spread that you did the bottom to go down to contact the ballot to reach out to the email provided in the podcast description. And to join our grappling community, head over the Instagram. Get out of the Instagram to your graphics draw, and all the way to be prepared for the next world.