Creating Space: Why Women Focused Jiu Jitsu Matters

Fear fades faster on a mat built with intention. I sat down with Emily and Rebecca, two purple belts behind Iron Wolf’s women-only BJJ program, to explore how a safe, thoughtful training space helps women start strong, stick with it, and grow into confident grapplers. From that first nervous class to rolling in co-ed sessions or stepping onto a competition mat, they share the systems and small choices that make a big difference: immediate welcomes, permission to observe, a slower path to first rolls, clear safety rules, and constant check-ins about intensity.

We dig into the real barriers that keep many women from walking through the door time, childcare, finances, relationship boundaries and the internal battles like anxiety and “I’m not built for this.” Their answer is structure and empathy. Drilling comes before sparring. Partners learn to ask for what they need. Approved partner lists and coach intervention are normal, not awkward. The result is a culture where technique actually lands because fear is dialed down, and confidence rises as students set intentional goals for each round. Teaching at purple belt has sharpened their own jiu-jitsu too; explaining steps out loud forces precision and exposes gaps worth fixing.

Ready to rethink how your gym welcomes and keeps women training for the long haul? Press play, then share this with a coach, teammate, or friend who needs that first-class nudge. If this resonated, subscribe, leave a review, and help more listeners find the show.

Connect with Emily and Rebecca on IG @bjj_ladiesonlyiw

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Keep Your Passion Brewing

Transcript

Welcome & Why Women-Only

Intro/Outro 0:30

We've got it all broad and ready.

SPEAKER_03 0:55

Welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Caffeinated Jiu-Jitsu. I am super excited for our guest today. It is a power duo, and today's episode is not just about technique and belts and competition medals. It's about creating space, a space to start, to struggle, a space to learn without fear, and a space to become someone completely new through jujitsu, which we all know uh about the powers of transformity of jujitsu. I am joined today by Emily Birenson. Hope that's close. Barons and Rebecca Miller, both Purple Belts, uh both instructors and founders of the Iron Wolf Ladies BJJ classes. And what they have built is not just a class, it's a room where women feel safe showing up exactly as they are. And this conversation for this episode is for women who train and women who may be thinking about training, and especially for gym owners who want to build something that is a safe place for women to train and a place that is built to last. Emily and Rebecca, welcome.

SPEAKER_04 2:23

Thank you. Thank you so much. We're excited.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

I I am so excited that you're both here. I know we've been kind of going, I've I've been trying to get you on for a little while. You have. I've sent a couple of I've sent a couple of messages, even before I came back to Iron Wolf.

SPEAKER_04 2:38

It's gonna be hard trying to get more than just one person uh day.

First Weeks On The Mat

SPEAKER_03 2:45

So lining up schedules is hard. Made it happen. I think we all have kids, we all have busy schedules, but I am so excited and such a timely, uh, timely episode. We were talking a little bit about that before we hit record. So um I like, you know, uh sometimes it's hard to start uh or know where to start, but let's start at the beginning. And what made uh made you realize women-only classes are needed? And if, you know, maybe there was a specific moment or pattern that made you both see or or think, wow, something's missing here.

SPEAKER_04 3:21

Well, we just, you know, really wanted to have a safe space for just women. Um, you know, Rebecca and I are very uh capable of training with men, um, but it's really nice to just also just do jujitsu with the girls.

SPEAKER_06 3:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 3:38

Um I don't I don't know about you, Rebecca, but you but you probably feel the same. Whenever I just train with the guys, I feel kind of like I've been hit by a train afterwards. So I really don't feel that way when it's just just us girls. We just we move differently. Um, we're very technical and um very attentive to each other's needs within the roles. Um, but yeah, it was definitely something that we saw the need for. Uh Caleb came to us and was like, hey, why don't you, why don't you do a ladies' class? And you know, he'd really just open that door for us. And um, we're immensely grateful for him for that.

SPEAKER_05 4:19

Um, absolutely. And and I've always thought it it was such a need because especially if you're at first starting out and you're female, it's a little daunting. It's a little like, what am I getting into? Um, and so having a ladies-only class is a really good first step. I think it's a little bit more comfortable um to you know see all females in there because there's definitely been times, I know I've only had this experience too. When I first started jujitsu and I got there, you know, I'm like five foot, maybe one.

SPEAKER_01 4:54

And on a good day, right?

SPEAKER_05 4:58

Yes, on a good day, on a good day. And I mean, I'm surrounded by giants. And so it was a little scary at first. And so I love that we give the opportunity. Um, not that we couldn't go against the guys or you couldn't first day go and join an all guys, you know. But this it gives that extra option, especially if you feel a little hesitant. It's a little bit of a, I don't know, a relief maybe knowing that there's an all ladies class and there's definitely things we can we have, similarities. I don't know. When we see the girls, we're like, oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:34

Yeah. Yeah, I would imagine looking across the mat and seeing just all guys and you're the only one in class. That that especially if you look, you know, if you think about from a brand new person's perspective, right? Maybe it's their like second week or first week on the mat and they show up and they're the only female there. You know, um did so did either one of you train anywhere else, or have you both been at Iron Wolf throughout your whole journey so far?

SPEAKER_04 6:05

Just Iron Wolf. I've cross-trained at a couple of other gyms, but my training has been strictly at Iron Wolf.

SPEAKER_05 6:12

It really has. And I and also like with Iron Wolf, I don't know, it just it's a special place. It is. Yeah. It it really was a place that once I got there, like Caleb really works hard to make anybody who enters comfortable, like lets us know that this is a safe place to train, and that's huge for a woman.

Barriers Before Stepping In

SPEAKER_03 6:33

Yeah. You know, I it and the reason I I asked that, so when you both started, and Caleb does, he may he creates a f just an amazing environment of a welcoming environment. But when you think if you can, think back to you know, maybe your first week of jujitsu training. And you know, well, uh because I know at Iron Wolf, and it may I I don't know if it was like this when it first started. You you both would uh know the earlier days than I would, but you know, you roll pretty quickly, right? I mean, it's it's not uh a wait until you get a certain amount of hours to roll. But when you first started training uh maybe with with guys, and and like what what were some of your feelings and um apprehensions? I mean, were there any? I would imagine there was were were maybe there was a time or two that you thought, I don't know about this.

SPEAKER_05 7:36

You want to go first?

SPEAKER_04 7:37

Yeah, I'll go first. Okay. Well, you started turning before it was back in the day.

SPEAKER_05 7:41

Yeah, yeah. I was I'm old. Okay. So but um I I remember it. I the reason that I first actually started jujitsu was I um I had a situation, I was a single mom at the time, and I had to get some work done at my house. And there was this creepy gentleman, I'm sorry, uh, but there was, and he was just a little too like forward and hovering over you. As a lady, no one wants to be hovered over, okay. Anyways, right? And so it just I had these red flags going off that like I don't have any tools. I I was like, all right, at this point, I don't have anything. So I started looking, and then that's when I, you know, happened upon Iron Wolf, so thankfully, but I had no idea what I was doing or what I was getting into, for that matter. It we showed, I mean, I had no martial arts experience ever in my life. Okay. Originally I was like, I'll never be that girl, but then it was just all right, I'm gonna learn some, you know, some techniques, some self-defense. And so I showed up, and they were just weird guys. And I know that that sounds bad, but I'm telling you, like, there's a different type of person for jujitsu, and I had a little bit of that crazy in me, and I saw one of them too. And I just I fell in love with it pretty fast. And I honestly just, you know, wanted to beat up people at the time too.

SPEAKER_03 9:10

So yeah, get some of that aggression out, right? Maybe he had in there.

SPEAKER_05 9:17

Oh, it was there, and so this is why we do jujitsu. Yes. Yeah, but like some other thought, like apprehensions. I mean, I definitely was thinking it was different because it's a much more intimate sport than most sports.

SPEAKER_07 9:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 9:31

Um, but the way that Caleb kind of explained it, you know, and just made me feel comfortable, like, you know, well, we're here on the mat, we're thinking about technique and how you can dislocate the shoulder straight from their back. And I was like, oh, I'm digging this. And everybody was just so like they worked with me at my pace. They weren't like, hey, get her, you know, fresh meat. Fresh meat. You know, they were like, they saw where I was in the very beginning stages, spazzy white belt, fast and crazy, diaping headfirst into things I probably shouldn't have. And they were like willing to let me learn, and I loved it.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:12

And that Rebecca, that's a great origin story, right? Yeah, we just got the superhero slash Millen origin story. That's awesome. That's Emily, what about yourself?

SPEAKER_04 10:22

Me? Well, origin story. I got into it because my husband was training and two of my three boys were training. Um, so you know, I was like, well, what is all this about? They seem to really love it. So I started looking into it and doing like all my Google research and looking at all the, you know, other women who were doing jujitsu, and I thought, hey, you know, maybe well, I can I can try this too. So I was terrified. I'm extremely claustrophobic. You know, I didn't want to work with anybody else but my husband. And um, I remember having like a panic attack, having to work with Caleb for the first time. I'm like, I'm not supposed to be touching another man, even though he's trying to help me learn something that's gonna help me in the long run. Um, that's that's something I've struggled with a lot is working with other men. Um, but Rebecca was there. Jasmine, Misty, you know, they were really patient with me. I know that um I tend to be really nice in my jujitsu, and they've been really encouraging to me to, you know, be a little meaner, be a little bit more aggressive. Um, once she got her blue belt, it was all downhill for there.

SPEAKER_03 11:32

Yeah, I was about to say she wasn't very nice the other day with that cross-collar choke she she got me in. I I can tell you that. No, that's that's awesome. I um it's similar, I think my story is more similar, uh Emily, to yours in that I I got into it because of a family member. I mean, uh Cam. I don't know if you you you remember Cam when he was in um the kids' class. He was only in for a few weeks and he decided to pursue soccer. And you know, I I I recognize the name. Yeah, he's all my boys are huge. No one recognizes them if they haven't seen them in more than a year or two. They all hit gross birds. But um, yeah, I I uh you know, i Ironwolf had contracts. I think they still have contracts, or I don't know if they have contracts now or if it's a monthly fee, but back then they had contracts, and I didn't want to, you know, unfulfill the contract. So I told Caleb, yeah, I'll I'll take a couple of classes and then absolutely obsessed. Um I mean, that's what it does to you. Either you absolutely hate it, or you become obsessed with it. There's no middle grounds, what I found. Um awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:39

So or something about jujitsu people, you know, there is definitely something different about us for us to really enjoy that type of violence.

SPEAKER_03 12:47

Yeah. You know, uh, Rebecca, you said something that that kind of ticked all uh ticked in my mind was like you kind of realize pretty quickly these are your people. Yes, you know, and it's weird, right? The unity, the fast unity that comes with it because everybody is from different walks of life, different political stances, different religions, um different age groups.

SPEAKER_04 13:12

I mean huge age gaps. Yeah, huge. Like some of your best friends are like 20 something.

SPEAKER_03 13:19

Right.

SPEAKER_04 13:20

Um sometimes I have to ask myself, what am I doing when I'm rolling with the I'm like the third oldest female, I'm the largest female that attends Iron Wolf. So not by much, not at all.

SPEAKER_01 13:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:35

Uh we do something to that too, being, you know, all of us are various sizes, ages, you know, and we all just make it happen.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

Yeah. Yeah. I think we could spend the entire time just in this section talking about this. But what I would love to learn more about um what barriers do you feel women face before they even step onto the mat, right?

SPEAKER_05 14:00

Oh, wealth. There's so many, there's a list. It's very long.

SPEAKER_03 14:06

Yeah, I would imagine so.

SPEAKER_04 14:08

Well, the husband, if you're married, he needs to be willing to accept that you're potentially training with other men. You know, we have men in the gym who will not or are not allowed to train with women. I totally respect that. You know, you have to respect your wife.

SPEAKER_07 14:24

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:25

And women have to respect their husbands. So that could be a barrier. Um time. Time's a huge barrier. Children. Life itself. School if you don't have children or if you're not married. I mean financial thing, you know, financially, it can be inexpensive.

SPEAKER_05 14:45

Absolutely. But I also think it takes for women, we are our own worst enemies sometimes. And I think that's a barrier too. We look at something like jujitsu, and it's, you know, it's that's crazy. Like, I mean, they're like beating each other up and flipping over, and I'm like looking at myself, and I'm like, I'm just a poor teacher. I don't know if I can do this, and and so we have to like get past that mentality that we can't, right? And and that fear that this will never work for me. And the thing is, that's after you do it one day, you have to keep battling that every next time that you show up. Because I mean, after jujitsu, often sometimes I'm like, well, I suck at jujitsu. I might be crazy now. I pay to get beat up, you know, like so it's a mentality for sure that we have to get past, but I think also like just once I go, every time I leave, I'm like, I did it. I went to jujitsu today. I grew a little bit more. I don't know where, but I did. One percent. One percent.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

I I think um I I think I just gain gained some insight. And I love this is what I love about podcasting right here, is is I learn just as much from my my guests. Uh uh there are some husbands that maybe they don't train, and it's important that they understand that you could be training with men, and if they're not okay with it, that you're in a gym that accepts that.

unknown 16:32

Right.

SPEAKER_03 16:32

And like that's not a barrier typically that I'm not saying that men wouldn't have that, but that's that's something that you know definitely your your your your single people and things like that don't have to deal with. And then the kids factor, right? Because a lot of times, um I mean my wife, she's she's a stay-at-home mom and has been a stay-at-home mom our entire marriage. If she started training jujitsu and I'm at work and she could only get to the lunch class or what have you, like that's that's like constraints that that that men don't don't sometimes uh have to deal with. And then I was actually uh Rebecca gonna ask about like the the mental and emotional, you know, aspect of it, but it sounds like that it's kind of one and the same, right? But uh, you know, how how could it not be? Um Do you think something changes? Uh well actually uh you yeah you kind of talked about this earlier. Um do you think something changes when women walk into a gym on a mat and they see other women? Like, do you think that helps with that that mental aspect of it and kind of warms them up? You know, versus they walk in and they're they're like I was talking about at the beginning, the only ones there?

SPEAKER_04 17:43

I definitely think so. I know for me, whenever I started, I was so comforted knowing that Rebecca was there because sometimes it was just her and it was just me um or you know, Jasmine. And then I started, um, I I got some courage and thought, okay, I'm gonna try a noon class while my husband is at work because I was very adamant about only training with him, and then Misty was there at the noon class, and I felt I felt a lot of comfort in that. So I definitely um believe that when other women come in that they also f find comfort in knowing that there are other women on the mat and they're not gonna be the only woman in the room.

SPEAKER_05 18:24

It's true. I'd even say we get a little giddy. I'll be like, I show up, you know, we haven't planned it out or anything, and I go and I'm like, I'm seeing a my whole crew here, and I'm like, this class is gonna be the best. So it's just it is exciting to see my female crew there. Yeah.

Anxiety-Aware Class Design

SPEAKER_03 18:45

Yeah, I tell uh it definitely I think it's and I think this is something probably uh both uh the men and women in jujitsu share. It really does expand your community. And you know, I I've I've made so many friendships, you know, uh in my jujitsu journey that I would have never had. And um one of the things, you know, we talked about barriers. Um and barriers and fears can kind of go hand in hand, but if we think about like internalized fears, right, what what are the most common fears that maybe uh you have found um when women are thinking about getting into jujitsu or when they're first in into jujitsu, maybe some of the people that you uh women that you teach have shared some of their early fears. Uh what are some of those, you know, common fears that you see?

SPEAKER_04 19:47

One of the the first thing that comes to my mind is we're all afraid we're gonna hurt each other. I was gonna say injury. Injury, yeah. Um, you know, we're very concerned we're doing these dangerous moves. Um, and we're all very concerned about are are we hurting our partner? Because, you know, at Iron Wolf, our number one rule is to take care of your partner. So you can't do jujitsu without your partners. You don't break your toys. So, you know, you have to learn, you know, how much intense or intensity you can provide to submissions and and then moves. So I think that that's one of the the major um concerns that women have is injury. You know, am I gonna hurt you if I do this Americana or if I do this choke or this hill hook, you know?

SPEAKER_05 20:38

Absolutely. And I'd even say injury for yourself. I mean, I'm thinking about how I'm doing my jujitsu when I'm rolling each time. And I'm like, is it worth it? Right. I'm asking that question because I know I've got limitations, you know, and they're doing work in their arm bar, and I'll be like, well, I still gotta make pancakes with that arm in about an hour, you know. Like, I I've got we have these outside like lives and responsibilities, and I've got tiny humans that are depending on me, and it don't matter if I'm broken, they still expect the pancakes to be on the plate. And so it's like that is definitely something we think about, I think, is injury, like my limitations. I gotta be careful with the moves I make, and you know, also they're making moves, and I'm cautious of that too. And and I don't want to hurt, like we are we're multi-thinking all of the time, Joe. A woman's brain is insane, you don't want to go there, but we've got I'm thinking about 10 weeks from now, okay? It's just we we think about so many things at one time, and so sometimes our brains do kind of get in the way a little bit, especially because we have some of those fears like injury.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

What did you think jujitsu would be like? Did it align with what you thought it would be? Is it something totally different? What what What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_07 22:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:05

Yeah. The tiger, the tiger claw. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 22:09

I mean, that kind of was my only mentality and notion of it. Like, was you know, the basic movie karate type thing. And also, you know, everybody's bleeding. Everybody's bleeding. You know, there's cast and crutches everywhere.

SPEAKER_04 22:23

Like it's so exciting when you're thinking about it. Well, I like I said, I did my research. Emily Googled I was getting into.

SPEAKER_03 22:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 22:36

Um, I just wasn't sure at the time if I could handle it because of my claustrophobia. Like I've really tried to get past that. And I've done really well. Um, sometimes like there were so many panic attacks, tears on the way home, tears on the way there, and then feeling better after class because I survived. So, you know, it it can be tough.

SPEAKER_03 23:00

Yeah, that's that that's a good bit of vulnerability there. I th I bet you that there are a lot of listeners, both men and women who deal with that because I have high anxiety, you know, PTSD, stuff like that. And I don't necessarily get claustrophobic. Actually, maybe I do, because if I can't, if I get a little breathless and I can't get that breath back and somebody's on top of me, I'm tapping. And maybe they don't even have me in a submission. But I I think that I think there's a lot of people out there that could probably relate to something like that. And, you know, since you both are, you know, the primary instructors for the women's course, and knowing, you know, Emily, some of the things that that you deal with and and Rebecca, um, even some of the maybe the mental and emotional things that you you deal with, how do you structure your class uh to take into account some of that potential anxiety that maybe they didn't come up and say, hey, I'm claustrophobic, or I was, you know, I'm I'm a a trauma survivor victim, right? Like, how do you set that up to to kind of help with that anxiety? Is there something like when a new person comes in, you kind of just talk to them and get to know a little bit about them before you put them in a role? Or like, like what what's that look like?

SPEAKER_04 24:22

Well, we kind of talked about this ahead of time. And um, Rebecca, I'll I'll let you answer.

White Belts, Pressure, And Care

SPEAKER_05 24:28

All right. So when when they first get there, um, introduction's really important. Um, and Caleb modeled this for us. So as soon as they come in the door, like I'm rushing over there to go and greet them and let them know that they we are happy that they are here. And then we really like just start off and communicating that, hey, you're here. If you simply want to observe, you don't even have to get on the mat. If you'd like to sit and observe on the mat, you're welcome to do that too. We make sure that's very clear that there's nothing here that they have to do, whatever they feel comfortable with. I mean, and also like, you know, a standard basis, we also don't be like, guess what? Roll one is today. So we we save rolling, we'll do more drilling um with them until they feel more comfortable, but just setting it up and communicating that we want them to be comfortable here and letting them know that it's safe. And as we're teaching together, I love teaching with Emily, by the way. She's like the best co-teacher ever. Um we're a team. We're we're the best team.

SPEAKER_04 25:33

We work really well together.

SPEAKER_05 25:34

We do, we do. So what we do is we go back and forth and we're constantly encouraging when we're teaching and we try to make sure that if we've got somebody who's brand new, but we also have some people who've been here consistently, like we make sure that the lesson can reach both of them. So we we adjust as we see the people that are in our class. And we make those needs and adjustments so that everybody feels that they're learning and growing and have a safe place to do whatever they want to do as far as the level that they want to at like participate in.

SPEAKER_03 26:10

Yeah, I I I think that's that's great. I was going to ask kind of what you intentionally don't do. Um, but you kind of listed yeah, the rolling, right? And that's I think that would be terrifying.

SPEAKER_04 26:23

You have to earn that. And we have to watch you and uh watch you in your drilling, watch how you're treating other people, watch how you're treating yourself before you you earn that.

SPEAKER_05 26:36

It's definitely an earning thing because at the same time, as much as I'm concerned for you, you're not gonna like set it up to where they could be injured because you know, you go crazy wild and you haven't learned all the procedures and rules that we have here and making sure that we take care of our partners.

unknown 26:51

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 26:52

All right. The most dangerous person in the room is a white belt.

SPEAKER_03 26:56

I think that may be the most dangerous person in the world. Like just in general. That's probably pretty scary. Oh, let me tell you. Um, I'm actually ashamed to tell this, but uh, on record now. So at Alliance, I was put initially on the female no roll list. And the reason for that was Emily's face. No, it's nothing terrible. But what it was what it was was I'm gonna get you.

SPEAKER_04 27:31

All right. I should we put him on our list?

SPEAKER_03 27:33

Oh gosh, and I have to I have to train him. I have to train tomorrow with Emily. Um, no, uh what it was was I I was using more strength than I realized.

SPEAKER_07 27:47

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Um and putting like full-on pressure on, and I just I I didn't know how to roll. Um it was it was new to me, right? Um, so for like a week, um the I think it was two or three females uh who trained during the um time that I trained, like the class is what I'm trying to say. And uh yeah, Hodrigo uh came to me. He's like, hey, uh, just want to let you know you uh you made the the no roll list. I was like, oh, what's that? And he told me, I was like, oh my God. So I went, I said, look, if you give me another chance to roll with you, I promise you I'll I'll I'll I'll do right. You know, I won't put all this crazy pressure. And then of course I'm back in the mix. So but I felt horrible for that. I mean, that that's a real thing, right? Like that is that is important too in in my mind for for women to be in a space where they can do that and say that and not feel pressure to have to roll with someone they're not uh comfortable with.

SPEAKER_04 28:56

Absolutely. There are, I'm not gonna name names, but there are men that I will not work with because you know, my job is to take care of myself.

SPEAKER_07 29:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 29:06

And to know that they aren't bad people. They are good people. They're just not on my approved list of rolling partners.

SPEAKER_03 29:13

Yeah. It's important. I think we all should have those, especially the higher belt you get. Right. I think the higher you go, you you need to be mindful. I mean, there's black belts that, you know, no disrespect. Some of them won't even roll with white belts at all in any gym.

SPEAKER_04 29:29

Yeah. I busted a lot of lips. I remember one time I busted this guy's lip with my head. And I felt horrible. And he did such a good job of um not freaking out and not getting angry. It was it was Sith. Um he did such a good job of staying calm, and I felt absolutely horrible. And I know once I headbutted Caleb in the in the mouth. I know that I've hit my own husband so many times. Uh many times to count, but yeah, I mean, white belts are dangerous.

unknown 30:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 30:09

Absolutely. I've been elbowed and punched and oh busted.

SPEAKER_05 30:13

I've elbowed and punched Emily, so kicked in the face. Not intentionally, not intentionally. No, it's accidental. Oh, for sure.

SPEAKER_03 30:21

Yeah, I got I got kicked in the face by Joey the other day, and I didn't tell him. Well, I guess he's gonna know now.

SPEAKER_05 30:26

He's gonna know now.

SPEAKER_03 30:27

But he's the one that gave me the newest shiner, right? I guess it's over here. It's going away, but uh, I've had more black eyes in my uh jujitsu journey than injuries. So that that I mean, those heal pretty quick.

SPEAKER_04 30:39

So you know, I work in a nursing home as a a nurse, and so I go to work with busted lips and black eyes. I'm like, I don't think makeup's gonna cover this. So, you know, I'm okay. I do jujitsu, right?

SPEAKER_03 30:53

Yeah, I have to go to executive board meetings sometimes and I show up with a black eye on Zoom and I'm like, oh, because they they require you to have your cameras on.

Confidence Emerging On The Mat

SPEAKER_05 31:01

Anyway, um I actually want to talk about what you said real fast, Joe. You said that once you found out you were on the list, you asked to come back and you were intentional about what you did. And I think honestly, for your all your listeners, like that means a lot. It does. If you are, you know, especially if you're a male out there and you're rolling, you know, with your fellow female, you know, teammates, like just being conscientious of it. Like, and I don't want you to make, you know, be really like dainty with me either, like I'm gonna break. There's a balance, but I don't want you going so hard, you know, or you know, like please don't use use me as your frustration, you know.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, what what I realized, I was going uh, you know, pretty much the same like uh roll pace as I was with the the males and just didn't realize it, right? It was uh I I I hadn't learned, you know, one or I think I was maybe one stride white, but I just hadn't learned how to dial that back, right? And I mean it like it I it like it wrecked me a little bit, like, oh my God, you know, I didn't realize that. But I'm so glad too, right, that I was in a gym where it was addressed. And it yeah, absolutely. I think if if if a male, if someone in if a guy in in a gym uh finds themselves, you know, uh not being paired up with uh, you know, female rolling partners and other people are, I think you should ask, hey, is there something that I, you know, maybe go to the professor, right? Uh and say, hey, do you know if anything's going on? Because and I think it's also a duty of the professor to let that person know, too, because I would have never known. I wouldn't have paid attention to it. So uh I'm glad that it was a it was a I'm glad I learned that early too in my career, like in my journey, right?

SPEAKER_04 32:58

And that you were receptive to it. Yes, and you're willing to change. So I know that you know, women uh would appreciate that. Yes, that means a lot, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:07

Yeah, yeah. It was, yeah. It was I was hesitant to share it, but it came up and I was like, yeah, this is great. Uh I it it pops in my mind from time to time, and almost every time when I start a role, I'm like, okay, make sure you you you slow it down. Um I did I did want to go back though to uh what we were talking about with your um with the women that you you you train. Is there ever a moment um when you can kind of see that initial fear or those hesitation reservations like leave them? Did they show up and they're either they just look more confident or more comfortable? Or even maybe it's during a role and they just look like they're having fun versus about to have a panic attack or something, right? Is there ever a moment that you see that?

SPEAKER_04 33:56

Well, the first thing that pops into my head is I saw that this weekend. Um, but it wasn't during the ladies' class, it was during the noon gi class, the co-ed class. Um I was teaching that class since Caleb was competing, and two girls came in. It was their first gi class and their sisters, and um the younger one was like, I am not working with the guys. Um, but she's like, I'm only working with my sister, and I'm like, that's totally fine. I want you to be comfortable, just do what you need to do. And I spent a lot of time with them uh helping them with their techniques, and Rebecca was there and um someone else was there, and once they did their technique and got more comfortable with it, I was like, What do you think about working with someone else now? Uh and she was like, you know what? I think it'll be okay. Like she felt more confident, she felt more relaxed, and then she was able to work with Rebecca and the other person, and she learned a lot, and you know, it was a really good experience, really, for both of them, because the other one got to work with other people as well instead of just her sister. So, you know, it was really, it was exciting to see that, you know, people who are able to find their comfort, their little comfort zone, even if it's like a first gi class when you're just used to doing no gi, you know, that alone can be a lot hard work. Um, but yeah, I I watched that fear leave her eyes. She was much more comfortable.

SPEAKER_05 35:35

Um, and even in some of our ladies who just have been here for such a long time, like Tammy and oh, yeah, like when we roll with them now, I mean, there's a little bit of the uh fear in my eyes because they're like, I'm coming to get you a back. And I'm like, yes, I'm so glad that you are like ready to go. Like they are on it. It's it's you can see it in their face, Joe. It's exciting. It's exciting to see. I love seeing that confidence. I love seeing their growth. Yeah.

Teaching At Purple Belt

SPEAKER_03 36:04

Yeah, I that's gotta be the best feeling to know that you uh facilitated that, right? In in your training, and you know, and it's a perfect pivot into uh, you know, some other things I want to talk about because you're both purple belts, and we know in jujitsu that's a lot of times those who want to train and and coach, that's kind of when they start, right? I've started helping with the kids' class because I'll I'll never be a world's uh world masters champion or anything like that. You know, I I'm 40, oh my god, I'm 46. I'm 46 years old, right? And uh just uh but I do want to train, I do want to coach. Um, but purple belt is is that time. Um how has you know teaching and coaching, um how has that changed your individual jujitsu, whether it be skill set, confidence, both? I mean, has it helped? Have you noticed um the benefits of it for yourself?

SPEAKER_05 37:13

Absolutely. 100%. Um, if you can, I was talking to her before this, like if you can put a move into words, like I'm on the right path. Like, because sometimes I'll be tired of teaching like I've never thought about putting it into words before. Yes. Right a you know, pro step-by-step process. It it makes me think deeper about these techniques.

SPEAKER_04 37:37

Yeah, I I found myself thinking back, okay, how did Caleb say this? So I can make sure that I say it the right way. Um, but it's definitely helped me with my technique, you know, simple things as far as like arm placement, the exact arm placement. You can't be all loosey-goosey. Uh, for example, with an Americana, the arm, your arms go in very specific places, your hands move very specific ways, and to execute the the submission, you know, you have to be able to articulate that, I think. And that's definitely been able to, it's definitely helped me with my own personal technique and execution of moves.

SPEAKER_05 38:18

Absolutely. And they ask great questions, questions that I don't personally think about. Yeah. So then I'm like, I've never thought about that before. And I'm like, let's give it a try, you know? So I feel like we've tried more and thought about jujitsu in a different way because we've really had to be open to everybody in the room, especially because we never know what kind of questions we're gonna get. And we um, our group, we we allow our young girls to come in as well. So mom and daughters are often in our group. I love it. We got little savage coming all the time. She beats me up. She's great. She is great, she is great. And so their way of thinking is it's fantastic to get questions from them. They're like, What if what if the big bad man did this?

SPEAKER_02 39:01

I'm like, oh what if they pulled out a samurai sword or a lightsaber? How would you do that?

SPEAKER_06 39:07

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 39:08

Well, I would ask where you you got a lightsaber. But yeah, no.

SPEAKER_03 39:14

Oh, that's awesome. Yeah, kids, kids can can say the craziest thing. Um, yeah, I I I was teaching uh or helping uh teach kids at uh Alliance a few uh maybe one class a week when I could get to it. And I started help Emily knows I've started helping.

SPEAKER_04 39:32

I'm immensely grateful that you are there to help. I know. I well I'm I'm I'm glad.

SPEAKER_03 39:38

I I feel you know, I feel though, again, another another vulnerable moment here. Um what's what's the word? Uh a little bit of that imposture syndrome, right? In the sense of, well, Rebecca, you you said that you never really felt about like putting into words. Well, I'm having that problem, but then also putting in the words where children understand. And I'm realizing that, wow, I don't know if I'm skilled enough to do this. And even though I have five kids, right? I wasn't teaching them step-by-step jujitsu and martial arts, right? Um, so that's something that that that I'm working on, right? Myself. And the kids are looking at me to tell them where to put their uh you know, hands, and I'm like, oh, what did he say? What did Kale say? It just goes, where are you? Like, I don't want to tell him, I don't know. But um so yeah, have either of you since you started uh teaching adults and and have you ever had that kind of imposter syndrome?

SPEAKER_04 40:39

Absolutely. Like all the times, it's still it like still good.

SPEAKER_03 40:43

I'm in good company. I don't feel bad now.

SPEAKER_04 40:46

I know what you mean with the kids though. I remember when I first started helping, I was like, okay, I really have to pay attention to what he's teaching so that I can, you know, reciprocate that on the mat, teaching and coaching the these kids. But I've learned that less is more for them, and they get things so much faster than you would think. You do and they don't have to get it perfectly, but if they understand the concept, then that's a win.

SPEAKER_06 41:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04 41:13

The imposter syndrome. It we've had a lot of conversations about that.

SPEAKER_05 41:19

We do, and and honestly, that's why I'm so grateful for a partner in teaching this class because I can I can ring her up and be like, guess what? I'm still a white belt. You know, and and I'll just feel like I can't, you know, kind of like I was talking about earlier, you know, we just we kind of battle that I can't type mindset, which then brings in that imposter syndrome, like, I can't possibly be a purple belt teaching other people about jujitsu. But like, really, you know, I I know deep down that I can, but sometimes I need somebody to just remind me and give me that encouragement to be like, stop talking negatively about yourself, Rebecca. Get back up there and get back in front of that class. You're a great teacher. And so we really lift each other up. And we do that in our ladies' class a lot too. Um, we we actually have a little powwow, Joe. All right.

SPEAKER_07 42:16

Imagine that.

Role Models & Women’s Scene

SPEAKER_05 42:17

We have a powwow at the end of class. And when we first started it, I, you know, it was just to be kind of like mini encouragement, wrap the class up, see if they had any questions, kind of thing. But it transformed. It's the one thing that I think surprised me the most about our class was how powerful and impactful that powwow was. We pick a word like for the month, like this month is courage. And we find a couple of quotes sometimes, or even just like talking things out. We're like, hey, this is a point that you know really stands out. And we just spend like one or two minutes talking about it. And we not only talk about it, but we're like, hey guys, this applies to you right now in your jujitsu and your life. Like, we're family here. If you need anything, you give us a call. We're, you know, like I'm I take every moment in that last little pow wow to be like, hey, the world brings you down, but we're gonna lift you up because you can. You showed up today, and that's a huge win. So it's and I'm immensely grateful that she does that.

SPEAKER_04 43:20

She's such a good teacher, and she's so good with our little mat chats that we have that I'm like, you know what? I that's more of her personality, whereas I'm more direct and to the point. I'm like, hey, let's go. And she's very funny. I am kind of funny, so we we flow flow very well together, I think.

SPEAKER_03 44:34

Yeah, I I remember uh Rebecca, I think we first rolled um at a 5 30 a.m. class. I I were deli you're delirious at that time anyway. Um I like to talk a lot when I roll, like too, like kind of and I I noticed that and it was a lot of fun, and I could imagine Imagine um how rolling with someone who makes you know rolling not intense.

unknown 45:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:00

I'm not saying you have to like have a full-blown conversation during rolling, but like how that that could could make them feel what's the word? Um more decease, right? And then uh this powwow idea, it's amazing. I think that you know, all classes should end with some type of, you know, not not necessarily a Sunday school lesson or what have you, but but somehow to take what you have learned and overcome in your class and apply it to everyday living and encouragement and things like that. I think that's that's huge. Um shift is shifting a little bit and want to talk about uh technique versus uh confidence. And um I I know this this battle between the two for me, uh I started it started showing up at Blue Belt because Blue Belt for me has been just I don't know, like a a wild ride in how different the white belt phase was for me. And uh and maybe it was the same, but it now you're both purple belts and you've been uh purple belts uh for a while. Uh when we think about confidence, and and maybe you you can answer this from your your own experience versus the women you teach, uh how does confidence change the way uh women roll, right? Maybe with each other or you see them rolling with other, you know, male counterparts. Like how when that confidence shows up, how how does that change the game? It is does that make sense? It does. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:44

I think for me, the confidence came when I made a decision to be more intentional in my roles. I had specific goals. And um because my issue, I know I've said this earlier, is I tend to be too nice. You know, it's hard to go from mom, you know, caretaker to I'm here to beat you up.

SPEAKER_07 47:05

Yeah.

Why Women Leave Or Stay

SPEAKER_04 47:06

So, you know, um, confidence uh seemed to show up more when I was more intentional, would say my aggression. I uh became a little bit more aggressive. And then, you know, I was intentional with whatever moves I wanted to do. And once I was able to execute those, it made me feel more confident. And then I would just try those same things on everybody that I rolled with. And, you know, sometimes I got it, sometimes I didn't. And it just helped me feel better about my jujitsu. So yeah, that definitely helps with the confidence. It's not always there, it's not, you know, especially if we're learning something new. I'm like, I suck. I'm back to white belt. Here's my belt. Um but it it it's you know technique that comes with practice drilling over and over and over until it just feels like you don't want to do it anymore. You'll notice that the next time that you roll, you're like, oh well, that was a little easier.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

Right.

SPEAKER_04 48:20

And that definitely helps with confidence.

SPEAKER_01 48:23

Yeah. I notice oh, go ahead. Go ahead. You you want to add anything, Rebecca?

SPEAKER_05 48:28

Sure. Um I'm still struggling with confidence in my technique sometimes. I uh I think I think it's interesting because I think it's more like a relationship between the two. You know, once I practice so much of the technique, it'll build my confidence, you know, and then also, you know, I have the confidence, you know, to try that technique and to roll a little bit harder. Yeah. You definitely have to have a little bit of confidence when you are rolling because that's what that was what changed for me. Once my confidence kind of changed in jujitsu early on, that's when I started to roll a little bit harder. And that's when my game really started to change because you know, when I'm rolling harder and untense like, then I can really start to work some of those techniques that I was, you know, practicing during the drilling time. So I just think they play so much hand in hand that they kind of affect each other along the way. My confidence builds, so does my technique, you know, and back and forth.

SPEAKER_03 49:36

Do you feel I I did a uh uh Instagram, I've started the series on Instagram, Bluebelt Reality, what have you. And I I did a post on um not putting pressure on yourself to win. And and for me, the reason I bring that up is because for me, the technique started clicking faster when I stopped putting so much pressure on myself. Do you you know, from your b both of your perspectives, do you do you feel that's true when you, you know, kind of get that pressure out of your head or off of you that the technique seems to work better or come to you faster?

SPEAKER_04 50:15

I would agree. Uh, that makes me think of competition training. Um, man, I I am very hard on myself. And then add competition training into it, and I'm like, I'm so hard on myself. Everything is hard, everything has to be right, and if it's not, I I shouldn't even be here. So um, but definitely I agree with you.

SPEAKER_07 50:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:43

I would I would say, you know, it sounds like if we're putting a sound bite on this, it sounds like confidence creates capacity, right? To learn more, to build more things like that, right? And it's funny that you bring up competition. Um because I I think it's important to talk about uh competition and uh the culture that we're in in competition, just kind of how it is now, just exploding. I mean, men, women, kids, like every Atlanta Open seems just packed all the brackets and it's just growing so much. You know, what do um how do women support each other differently on the map when it comes to uh you know, day-to-day and also when they know uh maybe each other are competing? How you know, is there uh do you see a difference in in kind of how they build each other up?

Starting A Women’s Program

SPEAKER_05 51:42

I think absolutely. I think one of the benefits, um women are really good about we like to talk um and we communicate. And I think that's one of the things that we do really well at jujitsu is we really are up front, you know. Like we, I mean, we're honestly, you know, we get to the mat, you know, we're starting to do our drills and like, so how's your day? Like what's going on in your life right now? So we're getting like the day to day, but even when it starts to come to like where you're at with your jujitsu and about to roll, I'll be like, what you working on? Do you want to work on something? I'll be like, Emily, I just want you to sit on me and I need to learn how to escape this. And and then when it comes to our people that are competing, I'd be like, All right, what's your game plan? I want you to do the whole drill on me. Like, let's go. So I think communication is definitely something that benefits us when we're talking about whether they're competing and we're just looking at that differently. And maybe our intensity level, we'll we'll even ask intensity level, like, how hard do you want me to go? Do you want me to kill you? I can do it. Like we we just really talk about what we need from each other and then we go for it.

SPEAKER_03 52:55

Um I I I this I don't know how I want to position this question. Do either of you have um like celebrity jujitsu female uh competitors that or people on like Instagram or social media that you kind of follow and and like to watch? Like for me, it's like Leo Negera, Bernardo Faria, um, and and uh some of those people. Is there anyone that you um kind of follow and and look up to? Besides each other, I'm sure it's I'm sure that's I follow Emily.

SPEAKER_04 53:35

I she's a lot younger than me, but I really like her jujitsu, um Fionn Davies. Yes, the way she moves though like she keeps it, she can do fancy stuff, but she'll do fundamentals and make it look just like butter, like it's the easiest thing ever. And I I love watching her.

SPEAKER_07 53:56

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 53:57

I really do. She's and then um what's the girl with the pigtails? Who I know you're talking about?

SPEAKER_03 54:02

Oh uh Helena. Helena. Helena is she is she uh she's dominant.

SPEAKER_04 54:07

She's just she's amazing and she's so composed.

SPEAKER_03 54:11

Um she's got that one face, just that like stone face when she's rolling. When she's prepared. I've never seen her exhausted. I've never seen her exhausted, like oh yeah. Those I think those two are are my favorite. Uh Fevon. Um, so uh Victoria Delgado, who trains at Alliance, had to face her in the final at Worlds this year. Oh wow, and Victoria landed a fireman's carry takedown on her. And of course, uh she I mean, she lost, right?

SPEAKER_04 54:47

If you want to beat her, but what an honor just to have a light nursing I got I got beat up by Fion.

SPEAKER_03 54:56

Yeah, like like could you imagine like looking at your bracket and going through does that say right? Like she's in there.

SPEAKER_04 55:05

And um the girl that I lost to at ADCC, she is a world champion. Her name's Kimberly. Hey Kimberly, if you ever listen to this, I think you're awesome. But she just competed again at ADCC at one and did really well. So she's somebody to watch out of. Um, it's not Atos anymore. I think they changed their name by like Atos in there.

SPEAKER_03 55:26

Yeah, I um I I think it's such uh without all the stuff that's going on, right? The the Bass Effa, it's over the past couple years, I I think women jujitsu at the to high scale because of Fifan, uh I always mess up her first name, uh, because of Helena, because of um, you know, all of these uh big name kind of competitors in the women's side, it's it's it's growing and it's amazing to see. And uh the they're the real deal. So I know there's there's uh some sections uh that we haven't gotten to, but we've been going for about an hour, and there's a couple of sections I definitely want to get us to, and we don't have to get up tomorrow. Um we have to train at lunch too. Uh but I want to talk about why women stay or leave jujitsu, right? Because I think that's important for people to hear and to understand, especially those a lot of people that listen to the podcast are coaches and owners of gym. Um so why do you do so many women quit um quit jujitsu, quit jujitsu in general, right? Um whether it's a traditional gym like a Gracie uh or just quit the martial art altogether.

SPEAKER_05 56:54

I think there's so many different like things that go into play here because like we're saying, like life itself sometimes just gets in the way. I really like that there's many opportunities at our gym for different opportun like different time frames. Like I do the 5.30 class on Fridays because I work through the whole week and it's the only time I can get there. I don't want to be there at 5:30 in the morning, but that's the best time for me to kind of train during the week sometimes. So life itself, um, and then also just that safe environment. Like if that's not initially set up or felt, I think it's really easy to not to not any like they leave, you know, kind of situations there.

SPEAKER_04 57:39

I would agree. I agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 57:42

Yeah, yeah. I I think that's important too for for coaches and gym owners to hear. And also those um getting ready to to start their their own gym, right? Um, what do you think keeps women coming back to uh Iron Wolf Ladies Jiu-Jitsu specifically uh to train with uh Emily and Rebecca?

SPEAKER_04 58:06

Community. Yes, that's what I was thinking in my head too. The community that we have. You know, Caleb worked really hard to create a safe place and for everybody, not just women, but it's really helpful and to know that we have a place that we can do jujitsu and it's completely safe. And then within that safe place, we've created a community where we we feel like family, even if we only see each other on the mat, you know, it still feels like family. We're really good friends. Most of us are really good friends, and most we have new people that are like working their way in, but we know welcome them with open arms. Um, and whenever we have our mat chats and we talk about, hey, you know, if you ever need something, or if you're feeling stuck or you're thinking, you know, maybe this isn't for me, let's just have a conversation. We actually mean that. We're not just like saying it to say it because we think people want to hear it. Like we actually we mean what we say. We love jujitsu, we're passionate about it. Um, you know, it's we we recognize all the difficulties that come with jujitsu on the mat and off the mat. And, you know, like we've been at it for years now and plan to continue to do it for more years, you know. We both want to get our black belts. Um so, you know, we want everybody to feel uh included. We don't want clicks, you know.

SPEAKER_01 59:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:34

That's that's that's a good idea.

SPEAKER_04 59:35

Definitely community.

Self-Defense, Tools & Mindset

SPEAKER_03 59:36

I I think that kills a lot of just gyms overall is when and you see that a lot in the big ones. You do, you do. I've trained in you know, small gyms and big gyms, and you see it. And I I I think I think you can because uh I I heard someone say uh one time uh that uh they weren't going to have a uh a gender specific type uh uh class because they didn't want, you know, uh the the clicks that that that you're talking about. But I think that's an inappropriate way to look at it, right? Um if clicks start developing, yes, you address them, but but we're talking about communities, right? And a community within a community is not a click, right? It's the same community. Um so so I think that that sometimes people can think um differently uh uh about that. And I think it's important to watch for those uh those clicks. I I would love to know um how uh you both feel knowing that um you're part of you know women specifically progressing in jujitsu. Like you're part of this movement, you're making a difference, uh, you know, not just in your your personal and individual journey, but in the the the journey of others. And I think, you know, that that goes uh that speaks a lot to teaching, right? Like we get that from leadership teaching and coaching, but like specifically, you were in you you are pouring into your community. What does that mean to you both?

SPEAKER_05 1:01:21

I mean, it's for both of us, it's a huge honor. Like I, you know, I I just see it, I just respect this opportunity that Caleb has given us and the women that show up and trust us and our, you know, to teach them things and to work with them and to help them grow and to share their life stories and their situations with us. It's it's an honor to do that. It it makes me feel great love, honestly, um, just from everybody. And not only that, like I when I have this opportunity to teach with Emily, I have I grow. I tell them every time, I'm like, thank you for showing up because you made me better today. You do say that. You say that every class.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:10

I know you mean it. Um, you know, it is an honor. It's an honor to to to be there and to be trusted as a coach at Iron Wolf, um, you know, with the kids, with the adults, with with our ladies' class specifically. It's like, wow, you know, you people come in and you trust us to teach you jujitsu. That feels like, you know, maybe this is part of my purpose, like why I was meant to come and start jujitsu all those years ago. Um, I read somewhere that you become who you were who you needed as a child, and not to get too deep, but you know, I I really believe that. Like I needed a strong, you know, confident woman in my life. And if that could, if I could surround myself with like-minded women like that and then raise up those kids in jiu-jitsu too. Wow, I I just I love it. I really, really love it. Like, I get so excited about jujitsu. I know I've had my days where I'm like, I quit. I'm calling your back down. Go back in, talk me off this cliff, please. I'm really strong. And, you know, she'd do the same for me, and I would do that for any of the anybody in in jujitsu if they're struggling. Because, you know, life happens and we need people like what we have in our jujitsu community to, you know, make sure that we stay together and we lift each other up and even hold each other accountable. So, you know, I love it. Me too.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:46

It's my heart.

Final Advice & How To Connect

SPEAKER_03 1:03:47

Yeah, that that's huge. I mean, I I don't see how you could could not have this deep emotional connection and do and do the this kind of work, right? Not just uh training jujitsu in in general, but but teaching and and really making a difference in a specific and and unique community. Um, as as we kind of get to to the close here, I I would I would love kind of your thoughts and perspective. And this is going, you know, this is speaking directly to those who are going to be listening that are gym owners and coaches and and professors. Um if they want to start a women's type program or focus class, what have you, what do they need to get right? And what mistakes can they not make, right? Like out of the gate. What do they need to get right? What can't they get wrong? Or what, yeah, what can't they get? You know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_06 1:04:48

Saying that right to get it.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:52

I I don't know. We understand what we're doing. Getting late. It's past my bedtime.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:57

Go ahead. I think that they just need to, if you know, like what Caleb did, he's like, hey, you want to start a class, start a class. That's what we did. And then he was like talking about it to everybody, you know, lifting us up. Hey, Emily and Rebecca, they have a ladies' class, you need to go tell your friends, you know, advertise it, maybe not like just advertisement within the jujitsu school and then lift us up and support support us in whatever way you see fit. Um, but just so we feel like and the women feel like they're supported because, you know, we are in a place that isn't ours. It's it's, you know, our coach's gym, but he's allowing it to happen. So knowing that he supports um everything that we do and our class really uh I think helps us out a lot.

SPEAKER_05 1:05:54

And I think is it really needs to happen. It keeps us from being isolated. Yes, we are part of Iron Wolf.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:03

Yes, we are our why does this have to be led with an intention? Or let me ask it like this: when when a a coach decides to have a focus, uh a gym decides to have a focus on uh women, jujitsu type class, um, how important is it for them to one choose the right person to lead it or group? I I love that you you tag team this. I mean, I think this is the way to do it if you're going to do it. And why marketing maybe is not so much the the thing, but the selection of the person and knowing that, like what types of personalities do they need to be looking for? You know, what yeah, I guess the question is is how important is it in getting the right person and what type of personalities do you think um do this well?

SPEAKER_05 1:07:02

So first of all, I think it you need to find someone who's passionate about doing it. You can't just assign and be like, hey, it's just another class that we're gonna offer here at our gym. It's like, no, you gotta be passionate about bringing women together and setting up a safe opportunity for them to learn and train and grow in jujitsu. So that's who you're looking for. If you don't have the passion, you're not going to have enough determination to make it last. Because you gotta be determined. I mean, because it wasn't like, hey, we started this class and it's like 20, 30 people have shown up.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:41

Like days it's just one person. And if you don't have somebody who's passionate about jujitsu or the class, then they're gonna quit. They're gonna get discouraged. Because I mean, there's not a lot of women that are doing jujitsu, not in our area. Maybe if we were in a different area, we our numbers would be higher, but you know. And like metro areas.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:02

Yeah, I mean, we're still a small town in Brazil. I mean, in a sense, right? I mean, we're growing, but we're not Athens.

SPEAKER_05 1:08:10

We'll get there. We'll get there. It's coming.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:13

Yeah. Um Well, uh you know, that's one thing I did notice, um, because as you you both know, I I left Iron Wolf what year was it? Was it 2022 or 2023? Emily, I don't I don't know. I can't remember.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:27

I don't know either.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:28

I mean, I think you were I think you were still a white belt when I left. No, maybe you were a bluebelt. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_07 1:08:34

I don't remember.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:36

I um but one thing I have noticed, and I talked to Caleb about this on our episode, which was awesome, and I hope a lot of people listen to that, um, was just how Ironwolf has exploded in growth. I mean, and and and to think about, there was no marketing done really. I mean, Caleb didn't look a door sign until what, like a year or so ago? Like he had no, like, like you wouldn't know where Ironwolf was unless somebody told you about it. And it's grown that way. And I think that says a lot about our culture, uh, our community, like what our environment is in Ironwolf, right? Like what it means to be Ironwolf. And I think that uh women who are listening, um, I I think they should make sure that they're at a place where they feel that. Whether they're they have, you know, a a specific class that they can attend with other women or, you know, they're they're just evaluating, hey, is this a safe spot for me?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:40

I know I would have been all over it if that was something that was available to me whenever I first started simply because I was so afraid, you know. I was afraid. I was afraid of all the men. So, you know, I think it's it's really a privilege that we're able to provide this as an opportunity for women who are maybe learning, wanting to learn more about self-defense or jujitsu. You know, Holly is our self-defense girl. Shout out, you know, fortitude's defense. We love Holly. You know, she she came to our class and I was like, you know what? I think you need more.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:17

She's she's she doing fortitude then, or did she launch that? Yeah, she was. She was. Okay, that's fine. She talked about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:10:24

I remember whenever Caleb told me he was like, um, you're gonna have a new lady come to class. Her name's Holly. Um, so I looked her up and I was like, Why is she coming to our class? She's already doing self-defense. Well, she didn't know jujitsu. So when she came in, she just had so much that she I could tell that she wanted to learn. Oh, she was a sponge. She still is a sponge. Oh, yeah. Like she's amazing.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:49

You can just tell she soaks it in. I love Treni Walley. And uh she was on too, and we had a great conversation. She's she's tough. Have y'all seen her IG post that she did where it's like this this uh self-defense ring, but it's also like a knife. I thought that was pretty cool.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:07

Other people have bought that ring because of her.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:09

Uh I was considering it. It's a serious weapon. Yeah, because like if you're running, right, like anybody at night or early in the morning, which you know, a lot of I mean, that's what that's when they can run, you know, right before the the the chaos begins.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:23

But anyway, I mean we talk about self-defense too. We talk about being aware of your surroundings at all times, having your eyes up, staying off your phone, using your voice. And if that doesn't and running away, if that doesn't get you away from someone or stop something from happening, then that's when we have jujitsu. You know, and then you know, if you're if you believe in the Second Amendment, which I do, you need to carry, you need to have knives, you need to have one of those fun rings. Um I think about the the ring pot. I think about the ring pot. Uh that's what I would be like, I'm gonna ring it. You know, we we talk about all of that, so yeah, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:04

I um well, so we've been at it. Um I I want to thank you both um so much for for coming on. I think this is a uh, like I said at the beginning, a timely conversation. I think it's uh an important topic. And you know, as we close out, what I would love to know again, kind of from both of you, if a woman is listening right now and thinking, you know, uh maybe maybe someday I'll do jujitsu or thinking about it and on the fence, what would you tell her? Just do it.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:40

Yeah, just do it.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:41

Nike. You can't beat it.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:43

Just do steal it.

SPEAKER_05 1:12:44

You'll get addicted. Come on. You've got what it's you've got what it takes. Yeah, yeah. You you've got it in you.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:52

All you gotta do is go. Yeah, you don't have to wait till you're in shape. You don't have to wait, you know, for whatever it is that you're waiting on. Just show up, just try it. I mean, first class is free. What you know, what's holding you back. You know, sometimes we have to bring our kids, you know, my kids with me all the time. So, you know, we're you know just just show up, just come.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:15

Yeah, don't let those excuses keep you from an awesome experience. You're gonna love it. Jiu-jitsu's the best.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:22

Jiu Jitsu and meeting great people like us, right? Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:26

How cool are we?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:27

We are pretty cool. I'm I'm highly considering uh coloring my hair.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:32

You really should. I mean bright red, man.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:35

Right? I'm really you know, I I'm considering it. I don't have a lot of hair and I'm it's starting.

SPEAKER_05 1:13:40

Oh, we can make it work.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:42

We're doing video I'm starting. I didn't know this. I did not know this, but my wife called it out. I I'm starting to lose a little on the top. And I don't want to be that guy with the the hole, right?

SPEAKER_05 1:13:53

Oh, you don't want the hole.

SPEAKER_03 1:13:55

I'm thinking, I'm thinking if I can, you know, maybe put some color and distract it.

SPEAKER_05 1:14:00

Oh, yes. So you use the hair dye, and then you get one of those Crayola Sharpies or just kind of park it in. You'd be good. No one will notice, Joe.

SPEAKER_02 1:14:09

It's like the the Sharpie ship lap, right? If I don't do that for my hair.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:14

They make this this uh special shampoo called Minoxodil. You can try that.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:18

Oh, yeah. The the I can't it's a medic medicated shampoo. Well, I don't I don't have the shampoo, but I I got the Rogaine drops, but I keep forgetting to put it on.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:27

Rogain's drops, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:14:28

Yeah. I've I I I don't have the discipline to put it on. So I'm just gonna let go and let God and just it'll be fine. We'll figure it out. I I have ball caps. All right, so um, so if we have kind of a a tagline out to to the listeners here, it kind of sounds like creating space isn't about lowering standards by any means. It's about opening doors. You know, Emily and Rebecca, I'm super thankful for you coming on and and talking about building something that is absolutely changing lives um and and just making jujitsu better for those who are uh doing jujitsu. So thank you both.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:11

Thanks for having us. Thanks for having us. We appreciate you.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:14

And really quick, if anyone wants to connect with you, what's the best way for them to connect?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:20

Um, well, it is our Instagram. It's at BJJ underscore ladies only IW. Awesome, awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:15:31

So I will put that in the show notes and they will absolutely I love it. I have this, I actually have that sticker. I don't know if you can see this. I have it on let's see. There it is.

SPEAKER_01 1:15:45

Yeah!

SPEAKER_03 1:15:46

There it is. It goes everywhere this little thing goes, which is everywhere on every trip. So um, yeah, well, I uh again, thank you. This has been great.

Intro/Outro 1:15:57

All right, awesome. Thank you. And that's the final tap of today's episode of Tap2. A big thanks to all of our listeners, especially today's insightful guest, for sharing their BJJ knowledge and tales. If you felt that adrenaline rock and are hungry for more, hit subscribe, drop a review, and spread the judges to buy.