Caleb Holland and The Iron Wolf Tale

A lot of schools say, “iron sharpens iron.” Few build an entire culture around it. We sat down with Professor Caleb Holland, owner and head coach of Iron Wolf Academy in Braselton, GA, to unpack how a humble school without a sign on the door grew to a packed mat by focusing on faith-driven values, clear standards, and relentless community. Caleb shares the origin of the Iron Wolf name, why the vibe is designed not accidental and the three rules that guide everything: take care of your partner, do your best, and have fun.

Caleb’s path to black belt winds through tang so do and judo, into Brazilian jiu-jitsu, a humbling early tournament, and a knee injury right after earning black belt. The turning point? Returning at the Charleston Open, losing on points, and still realizing he belonged at black belt. He credits influence from judo coach Max Andrews and Atos black belt Kristian Woodmansee, plus years of cross-training that shaped his lens on modern leg locks, takedowns, and the balance between Gi and no-Gi.

We go deep on coaching: moving from technique lists to concept-first teaching, why short specific rounds sharpen competitive scrambles, and how early exposure to heel hooks actually makes rooms safer. Caleb explains why stand-up matters judo and wrestling included and how a women-led program created space for safer learning and real confidence. We also talk culture at scale: hygiene and standards, clean music and language, the role of faith, and why referrals beat ads when your room delivers consistent results and care.

If you’re a practitioner, you’ll get practical insights on building a game that fits your body and goals. If you’re a coach or owner, you’ll hear hard-won lessons on structure, growth, and guarding the vibe. Hit play, then tell us: what’s the one standard your gym should never compromise?

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Keep Your Passion Brewing

Transcript

Welcome And Why This Guest Matters

SPEAKER_02 0:54

And welcome back, everyone, to another episode of Caffeinated Jiu Jitsu. And this is a super special episode to me. I know we have those from time to time because I have a very, very special guest with me today. This is someone who uh was has been a big part of my jujitsu journey, uh especially at the very beginning. Uh this person is uh, you know, the person that exposed me first uh to jujitsu. With me today, I have Professor Caleb Holland, who is the owner, founder, and professor of Ironwolf Academy here in my hometown of Brazzelton, Georgia. Caleb, welcome.

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Hey, Joe. Thanks, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Yeah, it's so good. Man, I'm glad we're finally getting to do this.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

This is good, this is gonna be awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:54

Yeah, I'll tell you. And and just for everyone, it's not that that we've taken this long to connect on purpose. We actually did a few months ago record uh at the academy, but uh I needed a little bit of upgrade in audio equipment, which we we have now. So Caleb and I are gonna have another great discussion. Uh, you know, Caleb, it's it's it's been a long journey for me. Um, but I think I think about every day, that very first training session, and very first time I stepped on the mat at Ironwolf Academy.

SPEAKER_03 2:30

Man, and that was that was so much has happened between now and then too, with both of our journeys. You know, there's just a lot, there's a lot going on.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Yeah, I think about I was 42 years old. It was 2022, and here I am three years later, you know, uh a blue belt, and uh just the experiences and um just the love and passion is it's still there. And you know, I have to say, I I that fire was first stoked right there at Ironwolf. And you know, I keep coming back and seeing you guys uh it's super early when I see you. But um, you know, it's something that I'll always be grateful for and it'll always be a part of my story, and I'm excited, you know, that the listeners uh now will have the opportunity to learn more about you and Ironwolf and this amazing community of jujitsu practitioners that that you're building there, man.

SPEAKER_03 3:29

Well, thanks, man. It's uh it's an honor and a privilege to be able to be on your podcast when you first came out with it. It was one of the things that I know a lot of the guys on the in the school listen to a lot. And so it's just uh yeah, this is gonna be great.

Founding Iron Wolf: Name, Faith, And Mission

SPEAKER_02 3:42

Yeah, yeah. Dan and I talk uh um I never can say Dan's last name. So uh is it Hussy? Hussey? Hussy, hussy. Yeah, Dan and I keep in touch and and man, um yeah, he he listens and and I'm I'm so appreciative to that. But uh let's let's jump into this. So let's let's talk a little bit first about the academy, you know, itself. And you know, what what really we'll talk a little bit later about you know that moment you knew you wanted to teach first, just you know, practice uh jujitsu. But you know, what inspired you to start you know Iron Wolf? And you know, maybe how'd you come about uh the name and why Brazzleton?

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Well, so uh some of that's gonna, you know, we we talked a little bit last time, some of that's gonna be real, real easy to answer. Um I I grew up, you know, doing karate, doing tung sudo, and um just through the years met all these different people and was exposed to judo and then found jiu-jitsu in Brazulton. Um and there my old professor is uh he was running a school called Alliance Martial Arts Center of Brazleton. So it's kind of cool because we have like similar heritages with our backgrounds in jiu-jitsu. Um and so I started there, got my blue belt, actually got all the way through my black belt through him. Uh his name's Todd, and that was you know a long journey as jujitsu is. But what happened was uh kind of a kind of an interesting scenario happened with uh the school. I was actually teaching for him and uh in my lap as an opportunity, and it was kind of like um it's kind of like the Lord just was like, this is what I have for you, go. And so I bought the school, renamed it um business wise as Caleb's Martial Arts and Fitness LLC, doing business as Iron Wolf Academy. So that's our name and our team name. Um and we chose that name um just because of the um because of the scripture in Proverbs it talks about iron sharpens iron as one man sharpens another. And then our old logo, so our logo now is a little more modern. My wife did a fantastic job with our new logo, man. She's she's oh she's so creative and and is just awesome at that. And so she created our new logo, but our old logo was a wolf or two wolves, excuse me, in like kind of like the yin and yang going around, uh sword in the middle and a shield in the background, and that all had a bunch of symbolism behind it. Um, and so that's how we came up with that name. We wanted um iron because it's strong and it's from that scripture. Uh wolf, because in all honesty, I'm actually afraid of wolves. Um, and uh I have a lot of respect for them now as an adult, but as a kid, I was I was pretty scared of them. And then um I love them now. They're fan, like as an animal, they're fantastic. Um, so Iron Wolf, and then we didn't want to use Dojo, and we didn't want to use gym because we're not an MMA gym. We didn't want to use uh school, so we just thought, okay, what's another word for that? And we're like place of higher learning would be academy. So we said Iron Wolf Academy would be the the name. Um and we also threw in there with the wolves um the like the Cherokee proverb that talks about uh we all have two wolves inside of us, one's a good wolf and one's an evil wolf, and they're always fighting, and the one that wins is the one you feed. And so uh that's just speaks to a lot of I think um of the kind of the jujitsu mentality of you know trying to improve and get better each day at what we do because we love it so much. Um so yeah, that's kind of where the name came from. And um we started doing business in July of 2014. So we've been we've been going now pretty successfully. Um is that 11 years now? Holy cow.

SPEAKER_02 7:37

Yeah, that's crazy, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:39

Yeah, it flies, man.

Early Years: Struggles, Structure, And Growth

SPEAKER_02 7:41

Yeah, it it really does. And I mean, I remember Brazzleton when it was nothing, dude. I remember when it was like a convenience store and like they were starting, like I think Chateau Alan was here, but like it wasn't what it is now. And oh no, yeah. It's just crazy how you know what was it? There was something the other day that uh Becca and I were talking about, and then we realized it was like 20 or 30 years. No, no, no, no. It was uh yesterday where uh I don't know if you saw this on Instagram. Um, the meme that was going around the the Nintendo entertainment system. Yep, was like that's insane. Was it 40 years? 40 years. Oh my god. 40 years for Nintendo. Like she and I just looked at each other like this can't be true. Um, but it is, you know, and it's but it is it's crazy how fast this all goes by. And um anyway, you know, what one of the things I I've I've noticed uh uh you know keeping in touch with with you and the and the team there is just gosh, just how big and how fast I would say at least in it since I've I've been gone and I've only been gone what a couple years, is is how much you've grown, you know. But you know, knowing that that you're in the state of growth right now, um uh what were your first years like, you know, those early struggles? Because there's a lot of gym owners that that listen to this, and they I've talked to a couple who are thinking about you know launching their own gym. You know, what what were some of your early struggles and late nights and things that kept you up?

SPEAKER_03 9:24

So that um what was I think great about back then that uh I have to be very um uh careful with now is you know, we're I was single and uh able to stay at the gym as long as I wanted to. I could be there till you know 11 if I wanted to, training, uh doing extra roles with people. And now, like as soon as we get done, I'm coming home because of uh Jordan. I want to be here with her, I want to spend time with her. And so um, you know, it's just a little bit a little bit different now than then, obviously. But one of the things that um I think was a really good thing that set up us for success now back then was just the amount of um how to say that, the amount of people who said, Hey, you could you could do this and we're gonna stick with it. Because we've got people who are who are with us now that started with me back then and they're still, you know, they still walk through the doors and train every day. Like we've got Pops and Dennis and just a whole, you know, Steve, we've got a whole whole crew from back then, and they man, they still want to come on the mats and train with us. So I'm very appreciative of that. Um, but the crew back then, man, they were just uh passionate. We're uh they they wanted what we had to offer and and just have stuck with it. And um uh so that's that's been one of the great things we've had. One of the one of the struggles that I had back then, and I think every um jujitsu coach at some point goes through this, depending on who their mentor is, um, is the structuring of their like lesson plans and their classes. Um and I've been teaching at that point, I'd already been teaching Tung Sud for a long time, but it's jujitsu is totally different from teaching karate or anything, and for that matter. And so I'd I struggled with like my lesson plans and keeping things moving along. I would teach one thing on a Monday and then teach something completely different the next day, and nothing was seen uh nothing, nothing was well put together, everything was here and there and all over the place. So I know I struggled with that, and my students would express, hey, but on Monday we did this, why are we doing this opposite thing on Friday? Um, and I would give them some inexperienced answer, I'm sure. Um, you know, so that's that was one thing I know I struggle struggled with in the beginning. Business-wise, um, man, we uh I I think I'm somewhat stubborn. Um, and so uh typically if I see something that I want to do, I'm either gonna run my head through the wall trying to get it done, or uh I'm gonna, you know, um go to find help uh in trying to get it done. And so the back then I I was more stubborn than able to ask for help. And so there were a lot of late nights of trying to figure out, okay, what do I do to to grow the school? What do I do to um you know, help people keep learning, and and the the biggest thing, man, is organically organic growth from inside our school. That's been our number one growth factor is people inside the school bring people to the academy. Um, because I like I came out of college as a dropout, I didn't finish college, and um it it my college degree was in exercise science, it wasn't even in business. And so a lot of the business principles that I've learned now from other people um who've been willing to help me and invest in in the school uh back then, I didn't have I didn't have any of that. So it was like, well, what what works? Well, friends bringing friends works. And so because they if they think it's fun and they enjoy it, then they're gonna tell their friends about it, and then their friends will want to tell their friends. And so that was that's really the only reason, and the grace of God, but the really the only reason we've grown to where we are now is because our members are are a family and are a very tight-knit team and tight-knit group. Um, even you know, there's those teammates who you're like, hey, you know, we gotta we gotta talk about this guy for a second, but yeah, even even with the people like that along the way, and there's only been like I would say two bad eggs in our school that we've had to, you know, have a hard conversation with. But I think that's pretty good in 10 years of business, you know. Um so yeah, they the the inside of the school growth from your members is for anybody starting out, that's gonna be your strongest growth factor, um, is organic growth. Um so yeah, there's and then there's you know, you could do you can do marketing, you can do ads, you can do Facebook. I did some Facebook and Instagram ads for a little while and they worked. Um But the biggest, the the biggest like growth factor that we've seen for 10 years consistently is friends bringing friends to jujitsu. And I think that speaks for the art itself, because that's how you that's how you get good at jujitsu is you have training partners. So yeah, that's um that's my thoughts on that.

Referrals Over Ads: Community As Engine

SPEAKER_02 14:25

Yeah, and I'll I'm so glad you brought that up um as you were sharing, because I I mean I I remember when I started there, and I started I started uh uh the reason I started was uh I wanted to get one of my sons in and Jance. Um uh I was training with Jance. Uh five rings uh barbell. We'll we'll go ahead and plug five rings here. And uh um I was doing power lifting, and and Jance said, yeah, you know, him and uh Milos uh were training there and he loved it. And you know, if Jance likes something, it's it's probably pretty good. He doesn't buy into a lot of fluff or um that's right. Hoopla, if you if you uh if you will. Uh and then and then Cam decided to do soccer, and and uh of course, you know, long story short, I I I I jumped in. So I the reason I share that is because I kind of came into it uh through this this referral thing you're talking about. I mean, for years, you didn't even have a sign. Like there was nothing there there was nothing from the street or in Brazil that would tell you where Ironwolf Academy was. And I always thought that was like in in my mind, because I did I did go to business school, right? And I've been in corporate America for years and I have an MBA and all this, and I was like, how is this place exploding like this? And I I used to tell the guys at Alliance, Matt, the business guy uh who runs the business side, I was like, Yeah, man, I was like, I don't know if they don't even have a sign on their door. He's like, What? I was like, yeah, they don't do like sponsored ads or you know, I mean, because at the time you yeah, I mean you don't do it all the time. But my my fact is you like you invested, I would say, over this this 10 years, uh not as much as some academies and marketing, and you've you've exploded and continue to grow. I mean, you and I both know you've outgrown the place you are now. Even I mean your maths are full every class. And right, I just you're right, it's a testament uh and and something that those that are getting ready to launch their own school uh need to think about the importance of referrals and the importance of you know the those that start having a a good experience, right? Because if if your first few people in the door have a horrible experience, that that's probably the nail in the coffin to your academy. Um because you're gonna lose all of that. But yeah, I I I think that that's a great point. I think people should just come by to to check out Ironwolf just so they can feel um you know Dennis's grips, because that guy is you look at Dennis and he's oh god, he's a beast. Yeah, I I remember rolling with him several occasions. So um but no man, uh, thanks for sharing that. Um I'd I'd love to learn a little bit more or the the audience to learn learn a little bit more about you and kind of your black belt journey or your journey to becoming a black belt and then becoming a professor. And um, I remember last time I asked you this question about who your biggest influencer were uh your biggest influencers were on your journey um, you know, to becoming a black belt, and you know, who helped shape your jujitsu mindset? And it's it's I want to ask you that question again because I think you had a you know a really good answer, and there were a lot of people that that kind of impacted that.

SPEAKER_03 17:54

So yeah, uh started, let's see. I gotta I gotta think back over, I guess, also what I said.

SPEAKER_02 18:01

Yeah, it's hard to come out with a list, right?

SPEAKER_03 18:03

Yeah, yeah. Uh so the uh the the story started in 1996. I I can't I can't not involve my tongue sudo background because tungse-do is what got me introduced to all the people that I've learned any kind of grappling from. So in 1996, we uh my parents were tired of me doing Power Ranger moves around the house and breaking stuff, and so they they were like, we got to put this kid in something. And my church was uh then just then starting a homeschool karate program called Twin Tigers. This is a little plug for them, Twin Tigers Martial Arts. And back then it was Twin Tigers Karate Academy, I think. Um, and they were the first karate exposure I got, and still am with them doing tungse-do uh today. Um, and so throughout the years, different things happened, schools split, move around, all the different things, and I ended up um uh doing tung pseudo with a different school at that time. And for black belt class, they would have a guy come in, his name was Max Andrews, and he taught us Japanese jiu-jitsu and judo. And then they had another man come in, his name was John Laurie, and he taught he was a sheriff's deputy with the Gwinnett County um police department, sorry, Gwinnett County Sheriff's Department, and um he taught us actual like Brazilian jiu-jitsu and and grappling. And uh man, back then the amount of information we did not have was awful. We were doing heel hooks, people people will be ashamed. We were doing heel hooks and tennis shoes and um like not doing them slow, like we were ripping them. And everybody wonders why we had you know knee problems. So uh just not safe, you know, not not the right way to train, but it served a purpose and got us exposed to uh the grappling scene because then it was like, oh, do I we've been I I've been grappling at that point for about a year, and I was like, I want to go to this tournament called Naga. And uh I didn't realize, okay, I'm I'm not gonna be fighting these guys who uh are like doing it once a week like I am. Like we're gonna we're gonna be fighting guys who do Brazilian jujitsu every day, twice a day. And I got I got arm barred in about 10 seconds. It was amazing, it was a humbling experience. But I think that also, because when somebody, when whenever something happens and somebody's like, you can't do blah, blah, blah, I get I get frustrated and I get a little bit angry and it and in the back of my mind it's like, no, well, you just told me I can't do something, so now watch me. And so that I feel like that tournament set off the okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna pursue this and I'm gonna be, I'm gonna get good at it, and I'm gonna, I'm gonna, you know, pursue it as hard as possible. And so then after that, I kept studying judo with Max, and Max was very influential in, and it still is because I'll involve the judo he taught me with our classes. Um, and he he was one of the biggest influences in the beginning of my grappling. Um, and so when I started pursuing Brazilian jujitsu and I got my blue belt, he told me he was like, uh he had lung cancer at the time. And so he was like, you know, I'm gonna die. So keep pursuing that because it looks like it's something you are enjoying, something you know you should do. And um that I at that point I was training with Todd, and uh Todd was with Alliance, and so that was, I guess, 2000. Well, Max died in 2016, so I'd already bought the school at that point. Um, and I think I'd already got my purple belt at that point. So Max, my judo coach, died, and then I stayed with Todd. Uh, did some cross-training with Philippe Gentry, uh, who owns SPG Buford and SPG Atlanta back when he was Gentry's MMA and he was an alliance affiliate. So that's purple belt and then brown belt, just pretty much still cross-training with him. Uh, did some privates with Paul Creighton, did some lessons there, uh, got exposed to the leg lock scene all throughout our training. Um, met Sean Applegate and have been doing some training with him more recently than back then, but saw him come on the scene and just create these monsters that are out there now. And um then, let's see, black belt was 2019 because I met my wife in 2017, and Jordan and I got married in 2019, and I got my black belt in 2019 from Todd. Uh 2018, I met Christian Woodmancy and told him I he was uh offering spots with his affiliation um to uh become part of it. And I said, could I become part of it and not involve my school, but just me as an athlete because I don't have a team. And it was like, yeah, sure. So it was it was very accommodating, and that's how our relationship started. I had a split with my coach because of some character decisions, and uh decided to come under Christian entirely. So our school is an affiliate of Logic, BJJ up in Philadelphia, and that affiliation, and Christian Woodmancy is my coach, and he's an Atos black belt, um, directly under Andre Kolau. So that's kind of where we've where we've come from. I like to call it the school of hard knocks because it's not been the it's not the most normal jujitsu journey where you find this academy and you might you know go from academy to academy or stay with the same academy the whole time. It's it was uh very uh unorthodox training and grappling until kind of got into the world and saw, you know, this is this is the systematized version of jujitsu and this is how we do it, and then have now now being trained under a world champion, how it's even more like specific with how things are done and and how much more direct. And it's just uh if if I could, I know there's a reason for everyone to have the past they have, but if I could go back and do it again, I would most definitely choose to train under someone who who you know kind of knew more what they were doing versus um just the people who were around me, but at the same time, I don't take that for granted because it it developed the relationships and the place we're at now with the knowledge we have now. So um, so yeah, that's that's kind of been my journey. It's been very much a mountain path um type of journey with lots of high, cool mountains and a lot of low valleys and a lot of you know in the middle, just uh you know, hiking along. It's been awesome.

The Black Belt Path And Influences

SPEAKER_02 24:27

Yeah, I um a couple things. Um thanks for sharing. So so I I've been really uh so I've I've I don't had to change gyms twice now or three times, I've lost count. And you know, it's always bittersweet, right? Um when you have to have to leave an academy. I've had to leave it both times for work, but man, I've been thankful and grateful to be, you know, uh under just some amazing professors, you know. I I learned so much uh from you uh and Professor Rodrigo, you know, at Alliance. Uh that's where I got my blue belt. And anytime I travel, man, it's just um uh amazing. Uh I went to the Philippines. Um I was saying August, maybe August, September, I can't remember. But um and if you've never been to the Philippines, man, uh it it's nice, but get ready to fly, brother, because it's like a 20-hour flight total.

SPEAKER_03 25:33

Oh wow, okay.

SPEAKER_02 25:34

But anyway, I got to train while I was there. And uh I got to train at some like kind of uh it's a it's kind of like a little uh hole in the wall, jujitsu. I mean, there was no air. Yeah, everything was open, and you know, you got to experience it training in another country, and it was it was awesome. So, you know, I I love the the diversity that um I've been exposed to early on when it comes to uh the different influences and things like that. You know, uh one thing that excites me so much about you know when I when I learn from you is the fact that you you you are a multidisciplined uh you know martial artist. Uh I I don't know anything about uh Tang Sido, but I know that judo uh has direct ties to uh jujitsu and almost can't have uh one one way without the other. Uh my follow-up question here is is do you feel like um you know you're you're you know going into judo first uh has helped you in your journey, has influenced you at all in in maybe your teaching or uh kind of importance?

SPEAKER_03 26:51

Oh definitely. I think uh I think especially in the like sports scene now, if you don't have a solid understanding of wrestling and or judo with it, uh even in Nogi, um you're seeing you're seeing people like high-level guys start to use more judo uh in the Nogi scene, uh like with Jay Flo coming out, Geronda Rousey's you know, judo coach coming out and putting a lot of his Nogi judo out there. Um just some amazing stuff. And so like if if an athlete doesn't have that side of it studied at least a little bit and have a basic knowledge of it, they're very, very behind in the competitive world. As far as like learning at a school and being you know a hobbyist, uh not everybody's gonna get that because that depends on their their professor or their coach they're under. Um but yeah, no, it's it's a huge, huge influence in my journey. I um would love to say that uh I'm I'm a guard puller by choice, but I stand if I can stand. Because like if I I do love playing the guard, it's one of the it's the unique thing that makes jujitsu jujitsu. Um and I have very specific guards that I love playing, and they're mostly open guards. They're not they're most of you would be like, oh, this if this guy sounds old school, he would probably play close guard. No, I I love the open guards, but I also love the stand-up exchange. And when I meet and and train with someone who's willing to go through that stand-up exchange with me, and and we have a battle up there, man, it is so, so fun. And um, so yeah, like it definitely plays a huge part in my training uh and my teaching. I tried, I think um, I wouldn't say it's it's every week, but at least every two weeks we we do the beginning of class. It starts with a um a specific set of takedowns or a specific set of throws to learn. Because I don't want I don't I don't want my guys to come out into a into the scene of you know jujitsu go to another school and then be like, well, I don't know any stand-up and everybody's starting standing, which uh a lot of schools do start standing, but a lot of schools don't.

SPEAKER_01 29:01

Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:01

And so I you know, I want my guys to be able to learn that aspect of the art because it to me it's a it's a piece that um can give you a clearer advantage, but also a I think a better understanding, excuse me, a better understanding of um you know of what jujitsu really is meant for. Um so yeah, yeah, judo's judo's huge, wrestling's huge. Uh I never wrestled in high school, but I I hung out with a lot of the wrestlers, so I got to I got to wrestle without wrestling. Um they would be kind enough to throw me on my head a few times, you know, and then be like, this is what a double leg is. Um so yeah, they the we I I like that. I like adding that in. Um and yeah, it it nogi. The thing that man now is like in the gi world in jujitsu, you see some judo, but really in the nogi scene is where you're seeing a lot of judo come out and be be used in competition, which is uh to me, it's like surprising because judo is done in the gi. So, anyways, that's I

SPEAKER_02 30:00

just I feel like that it's it's fascinating um what um what we're seeing right now you know right yeah I think that's a good point and I I I tell everyone I blame Ironwolf for making me a a a guard puller because for my very first class one of the very first things or that first week I remember you taught us how to pull uh guard and then transition into X guard and man for the longest I was just like and then from there I just realized well I'm not very athletic I'm gonna pull guard um but yeah I uh but the reason I ask uh about judo and your background there and the importance of it and kind of how it may relate is uh so uh I I bought I bought a copy of the um how is it the Codokon uh judo I bought a copy and I've been reading it over the past probably month or so just kind of going back and forth and and you'll be surprised I started you know actually uh trying takedowns and and going for some of the the judo throws that I'm reading about and I have zero judo formal training or whatever but like Osoto Gari I'm landing that now and and I'm able to pull into Ashogarami and like I just now I'm I'm in this mindset of saying man maybe I should go take some judo classes and but I but you know I don't know right like I'm 45 and I'm gonna go around getting slammed already judo's I don't know uh jujitsu is hard enough on the body but I just I just think that uh you know and I think you made the point anyone with a wrestling background or some type of um you know judo what have you uh it's it helps and uh you know I just think that that I mean I think that's something maybe I want to add to my game.

SPEAKER_03 32:34

Yeah I I think it it's it definitely um it's like it's if you could look at jujitsu where you have the you have the guard you have positions you have submissions and you have the stand-up exchange and I I don't separate the guard from the standup exchange because it's the it's the inverse of doing like a takedown or a judo throw. You're still pulling guard to sweep or submit right so like it's it's doing it from your back instead of doing it from your feet. So then the the principles are still all the same. It's just how you're doing them that's different of offsetting balance and then you know getting them down on their back. So it it the principles can go between the arts.

Judo, Wrestling, And The Stand-Up Exchange

SPEAKER_02 33:20

But yeah no I would I would highly encourage you or any anybody you know listening to do that definitely take some some basic judo take some basic wrestling um and don't be afraid to take different different styles uh like uh of wrestling because there's you know there's like freestyle there's greco-roman um there's folk style so that you've got different kinds of wrestling in there as well that you could you could run to so yeah yeah you immediately know when when a new white belt comes into the school and you're rolling with them for the first time if they if they have a wrestling background. I mean like within seconds seconds. Yep and it's the same when you you have somebody and you stand up and you grab their lapel you can kind of tell if they have a judo background right where they're standing real square to you and you're like what's this guy gonna and then all of a sudden you're on your back right so right um yeah it's it's I mean it's it's it's I'm glad you kind of spent some time on that I've I've been thinking about that a lot lately. So you know continuing on here um you know I I think we all have have these life moments right whether it's in business or personal lives or or what have have you that we can call like a a defining moment um you know can you think back to any type of you know defining moment in your journey uh to where you are now and and then at what point did you did you decide you know what uh I'm gonna do this teaching thing full time what what was it that made you decide to go from just regular general uh jujitsu practitioner to you know professor of Ironwolf Academy well I uh I'd love to say there was like one defining moment but it's kind of been I think a bunch of small ones um but the other the other uh side of that it would be also I it's not that I had a choice but I I didn't feel like I had a choice because it's kind of all I know um because I've been doing doing this my whole life so um you know I uh career wise uh it's just what made sense um but the the defining like time I guess you could say where I was like okay I can I can do this I can make this work was when it clicked that oh I'm gonna have to provide for a family and I'm gonna have to make this my full-time thing and that uh realization was huge um my Jordan helped me helped me see that um and then uh just trying to get the school to grow that's another small baby step that is a kind of a constant where it's like okay I've gotta we've got to always keep the school moving forward and growing because if it's not moving forward and growing then it's it's not standing still which means it's going backwards.

SPEAKER_03 36:06

Along with the the little baby steps along the way of just um the small things like uh when you have when you see a kid who uh um gets bullied and continuously gets bullied and then actually has to use his jujitsu to forcibly stop a kid from bullying him that's those the those moments along the way are ones where you're like like you could call it like a core memory like it's one of those things that's just it makes you feel really really really good about what you do. And then when you see athletes go compete and they do really well the the highs are very high and then when athletes go and they compete and they don't do really well the lows are low but it's part of the game and the the the aspect of failing forward is huge in jiu jitsu so I think I think if people um and it's cliche because we have the saying in jujitsu right you don't you don't win or lose you win or learn although you do lose but the losses are some of the best teachers you know so uh I think there's been there's been a lot of um those along the way um just different different life lessons that jujitsu's taught me one of the I think one of the best things that Christian actually says is if you'll if you'll live life or if and he he uses it with business he says if you'll run your business like you should do jujitsu then it'll be successful. I think uh there like also there's a shirt Haja Gracie's has that says jujitsu is easy as long as you do it right. And the both those statements are entirely true but what happens is we we sometimes we get in our own way and I think that's been um the biggest thing with my academy and and my jujitsu is a lot of times it's not uh what my training partner is doing to me or trying to use against me. It's it's me getting in my own way. And um so yeah that um that's those are some lessons I've learned and then the I guess the one like real defining moment um for me there's something that solidified me I guess black belt was so I I got my black belt we got married and then I competed and I did a new breed and I busted my knee and I busted it really good.

Defining Moments: Injury, Return, Belonging

SPEAKER_02 38:25

I'm pretty sure I I tore my meniscus or um sprained sprained or tore my MCL or ACL one of one of my ligaments that's not supposed to be uh unsturdy was very unsturdy and so I spent probably a year and a half not competing trying to rehab it and get it stronger which Jance did a phenomenal job getting it back to where it needed to be um and so we had a lot of life personal life change going on in those years too COVID happened uh a bunch of craziness right so a year and a half almost no competition and I remember the Charleston Open uh I signed up for it and um I was like I I need to I need to do this competition because I haven't competed in a year and a half and and I just I my goal in that tournament I remember telling myself was I just want to feel like I belong with these black belts in the black belt division otherwise I feel like I need to give my black belt back and so went into that competition lost almost every round but never got submitted lost by points um and learned learned a ton but at the same time every single competitor that I competed against came away from that um competition telling me man you're one of the toughest people I've ever competed against and you you know you're you're really good at jujitsu and I just remember thinking okay uh I guess that means um I guess that means I I belong in this division or I belong in this you know rank and okay cool so then uh after that tournament just stepped into the rank of black belt and was like okay I belong here this is this is what I'm gonna do and since then and just kind of making that decision um uh and and after that tournament things have things have just gone forward fast and they've gone for upward you know um having lots of success competitively students are having a lot of success competitively the school's growing um and we're making we're just making some moves that are really really good um and it really I think that was one of the moments that it was like hey okay we're gonna we're gonna this is new territory you're gonna be a black bill for the rest of your life but step into this role and make sure that we belong here and so yeah that was that was one um one time and then there's there's a few others but that was that was a very important one so yeah yeah I think it yeah and and I guess it it would be a lot of defining moments like little moments here and there uh love that you brought up the fact that you know you're some of your favorite moments have been where you've you've impact young people's lives uh especially around bullying you know I think it's Tom de Blas he has a a program or something that centers around uh helping kids that are bullied and yeah I can I can I don't think I was ever really bullied in school but I yeah I did see it a lot and you know I mean here in northeast Georgia in commerce Jefferson Brazilton there was no jiu jitsu well you wouldn't back in ninety eight ninety four in the you know early nineties no one knew what that was around here I couldn't think of anywhere that was up and running I mean um I I think commerce now has a Gracie gym but outside of that Jefferson I don't think has anything uh here in Brazleton we only have what two and then um you don't see them again until you get up around Buford and Dekula and then of course into Atlanta Flowery Branch had had one for a little while but they just switch switched that over and got a new one um like they had him and then that the that coach was gone uh and now that they've got a henzo gracie affiliate up flower branch I had no idea I um it just it's just never been huge around here until like now I mean I I I would say Ironwolf has the fastest growing academy that it that I've seen I've trained at all of them around here I well I take that back I haven't I haven't trained at Santos but that's cause you know I do a lot of gee stuff so um but no I uh I I'll tell you it's it so I'll never be a world champion um it's just not on my goals list it's not a skills things but it takes a lot of you know time commitment things like that even in the master's division but you know hopefully one day I would love to train you know be working at you know or or uh you know train or coach when once I get my black belt so it's it's good uh to know to watch out for those those kind of little moments um because it sounds like it's it's the same thing with all things in life right that that drive us into something I mean I when I was 31 I would have never thought I would have a jujitsu podcast or be working in a corporate office. I was in the military jumping out of airplanes you know right and it's just crazy how our life just navigates. But anyway uh before I go to down a rabbit hole of nostalgia and philosophy uh how do you think your perspective on jujitsu has evolved over the years through your career right if you think back to your white belt days or or maybe even to your purple belt days right uh you know how how has your perspective evolved um yeah definitely more um open to ideas and different training methods uh I'm I'm also a little more concrete on things that I know work and have seen work for us so we're gonna we stick to those and we stick to those really hard um I think last time we talked about like positional training being and specific training the short rounds being something that um some schools do it and then other schools like don't do any of it they just do you know regular um drilling and then they roll and there's nothing wrong with that like everybody's everybody's got their own way of doing things but the high quality the high quality schools that I've gotten to be exposed to all do positional training at some point in their um classes like this the short specific training rounds that are 30 or 40 seconds long and that's that was a key change in our school that we made that um that left us uh or let us learn the importance of those those short sprints you know um that they're huge and they they've helped us compete better um like in the scrambles if you haven't had that those short rounds you you tend to lose more of the scrambles so anyways that that's one um definite thing that we do differently um and then I and it's very it's very different and then I don't and I don't ever want to say this in a way that would insult any other person's academy or any other person's you know curriculum or anything um but having having the standardization of jujitsu like every school needs a standard so I like I have my standard for blue belt I have my standard for purple belt I have my standard for brown and black belt but it's a very uh open standard I guess you could say for for people to fill in the things they want to do into that space so it's not like a list of moves because I at first I as a purple belt especially I started running classes with this list of moves in mind that oh okay from white to blue everyone's going to need to know this blue to purple everyone's gonna need to know this and eventually brown to black and uh or purple to brown and brown to black they're gonna need to know these things and I I ran it like a tongue so do program.

SPEAKER_03 46:27

And you just can't do that. There are some schools that do that and I would I would uh um I would beg to say that they they see less success than the schools that are more conceptual based. But that being said you know there's there's schools that have they do both they have concepts that their students need to know and they're very conceptual but they also have a list of moves that are a standard for them to learn like every every white white belt needs to learn how to break fall how to shrimp how to bridge right and how to learn the basic positions like we those are things that across the board everyone can agree on. But whether a blue belt knows how to do an inverted spider guard armbar, does that really matter you know um and because there's guys who literally can't do it. You know and then there's like does does the short small 120 pound guy or girl do do they need to focus on mount as much as they need to focus on being able to get on the back or you know those those kind of things that's where the the standardization kind of like in our education system this whole like standardized testing I'm I'm not a huge proponent of it. I think that there should be a standard but like the say putting everybody into the box of this is what bluebell is here's this box fit in it and forcing someone to fit into it I think it it does a disservice to the student where their potential might lie elsewhere within jujitsu and within the the boundaries of what jiu-jitsu is and the concepts of what jiu jitsu is um so anyways teaching methodology wise that's something we've kind of morphed into is being able to say here's the here's the the boundary lines of what jujitsu concepts are within those boundary lines have as much freedom as you want to move in and out of you know different things like we do heel hooks at White Belt and I teach my white belts how to how to do a heel hook how to escape it properly how to tap properly to it because I don't want them never doing heel hooks then getting the brown belt and some brown belt who's been doing them you know since uh at at a school like mine who's been you know doing them since White Belt and then they come up against them and start rolling they're like man what is this move I've never seen before I see my black belts doing it you know I've I've never been exposed to blah blah blah you know and it eliminates it creates a safer room I think but it also eliminates that from happening um so we yeah that's just one of the things we do that's been I think have been a a big change over time. And then the emphasis on the conceptual learning versus the moves based learning like we use moves for examples to learn a concept and everybody's gonna that's that's mainly from Christian teaching that and and how I learned to do that was was entirely from him but the the the pendulum back and forth of of conceptual learning versus moves based learning it swings and it and it sometimes it goes over people's heads and sometimes they they latch onto it and sink their teeth into it. But most of the time everyone learns quicker um as long as you have a balance between those two types of learning. So yeah that's that's not something I ever thought about as a purple belt. As a purple belt or brown belt and I was thinking about I got to teach my guys are horrible at arm bars. I got to teach them armbars. My guys are horrible at uh passing the guard I got to teach them this new pass that John Danaher just taught or whatever, you know and that's not that's not at all a way to a way to teach or run your school. You could you could literally teach the same moves and your guys get good at just these same moves as long as they learn the concepts in jiu jitsu and they could still thrash people it's not how much you know it's how well you know what you know.

Teaching Evolution: Concepts Over Checklists

SPEAKER_02 50:09

So yeah that's as a as a purple belt I was wasn't doing that and um I think that's definitely something that sets apart the deeper understanding of jujitsu from and from even black belt to black belt um like you can see the difference in a black belt like um well like Gordon Ryan and somebody like him and Wagner Rocha versus even I'll say I'm trying to get there but even someone like me and then there's people who are even I think less uh understanding of that that are also black belts and the roles with them are just different you know in a negative way they're they're they're different where it's like do you not understand you know this concept of hip movement do you not understand like you know this move but do you not understand that it it works because of this and so um anyways yeah that that's uh that's something that's been been pretty big um and something we've been trying to focus on very recently um like I say recently it's been six years since we started implementing that kind of thought process right yeah yeah I I love that you you touched on two things that that even my uh I've gained new perspective on and that's um the hundred percent absolute importance of positional training and uh man I'll tell you I've I've gotten more and again I'm I'm a three year you know I've only been practicing uh in jujitsu for three years blue belt level uh but I've gotten more out of uh positional or specific training whatever you call it than I have any role right and because I think that's where you start to hone and refine and define your technique right that's where you know uh I played I tried to play a lot of open guard when I was a white belt uh white belt but everybody would just breeze through it like my yeah a lot of open guard and they would they would just breeze through it and you know uh uh professor Macio was like what are you doing like why are you why are you you're you're not athletic you know and um it's just it I found uh my path right through half guard through closed guard stuff like that uh by working specific training and positional training and uh the other thing the other point you bring up about you know um curriculum based type training versus you know the semi-structure um fit you know have your jujitsu fit your students and and I've been through both right I started with you you you had that that that teaching mythology I mean again like my first week we're learning X Guard you know it's so cool I think that my first BJJ fanatics um instructional was uh I think it was John Tama Tama uh his his XGAR stuff because of what we were learning at at Ironwolf and um and then of course you know alliance is highly curriculum right like you you you will learn white belt and uh fundamentals and and then you do your 60 hours and then you you are you you move up right and and and there's benefits to both because I learned some good good course stuff. But my jujitsu um I think I did a post on this or about to do a post on it this week come I I there's a there's instructors and professors and people out there that'll say hey only use and and learn what you learn in class don't research or look online or anything like that. Now like there's some crazy stuff out there online don't get me wrong but but I think we need to be a student a true student and learner and you know craving knowledge for jujitsu especially someone like myself those of us who are within those first one to five years I mean we need to be soaking it in and you know a lot I mean even some of the submissions and things and sweeps that I'm doing now that are actually working uh yeah there's the the entries and things like that are things I've learned in class but a lot of it's you know things I've learned maybe at a seminar that I went to uh or uh I won't say Instagram but like a an instructional that I watch right because I don't I don't want to be doing the the the money was it money bird money money bag guy that guy right oh man gosh I'll say anyway yes I want to go down that but my God you know there's some crazy stuff out there but but like I we should be reading the books and you know pick right get a copy of the Kodokan and you know read uh opening close guard and it just there's all kinds of things right and just right right um so I love I I now in my journey appreciate that environment that allows you to uh do the jujitsu that fits you because jujitsu yeah you know it's not a one size fits all I mean it looks different for everybody right yeah 100% oh that's good can I can I add on to that real quick the yeah um the I would say like as a as a practitioner of it you're 100% right uh everybody should learn you know their their style I guess you could call it of jujitsu and that that's very important I think that's where professors and coaches struggle is because they have their style of of jujitsu and but because they're a coach or a professor they have to teach somebody whose style might be polar opposite of theirs you know like yours you're liking you're using half guard and close guard a lot well if you're a professor who uses that a lot but then you got this young kid who's like well I want I'm I'm fighting guys who are doing birambolos and all these inverted crazy things right like okay well how do you how do you coach someone like that do you push it off on someone else who knows how to do that or do you try to learn it yourself so I think for like coaches and professors there's a I don't want to say higher standard but there's a higher expectation of being able to instruct those things versus the the competitor who uses their A game and that's all they study and that's all they do or the guy who is you know learning excuse me learning jujitsu as a hobby and they want to get good at it well don't you don't need to learn everything unless you're gonna teach it.

SPEAKER_03 56:54

Now if you're gonna teach it then you do you should learn uh everything and that doesn't mean you use everything especially in competition but you still need to learn everything and I think that's where cross-training comes in and to get onto like other jujitsu issues a little bit I'm not gonna skim the surface and jump off it real fast. I I'm a huge proponent of cross-training because if I wasn't I would be the biggest hypocrite because I cross trained at so many different gyms as a color belt and I still do as a as a black belt. Like if I get a chance to go train at 10th planet Atlanta I do. If I can train at Megalodon in Athens I do. If I can train at any gym you know any gym that would that would allow me to come in and roll or train with their guys I I would I would um and so uh cross training for me is is something that built a good you know rolling foundation for me. And I so if my students are always like hey I'm gonna go train at this other school some I'm never going to have an issue with that and I'm not gonna get my feelings hurt about it either as a coach because I I encourage it and I want them to do it because they're gonna learn potentially something I don't know you know but more than likely from somebody else who's better at you know something that I'm not good at. So yeah that's that's something that uh I other other jujitsu affiliations kind of so some of them especially don't they don't let their students do it which I don't understand that. Right yeah some of them discourage their students from doing it and it's like man come on you know like let let you're stunting their growth a good bit and could potentially discourage this the the student to press on all the way through black belt. So anyways that I wanted to speak on that because I remember we talked about that a little bit and and um it's it's one of those things that that I think can create a very very good practitioner in jujitsu if if they're able to cross train they should you know yeah yeah I agree and I I definitely don't think it should be looked at by you know a practitioner school as as like a like a lack of loyalty or something in malice.

SPEAKER_02 58:58

It's it's just exposure you know the more you're exposed to anything the more knowledgeable you become right and right um I I like I said earlier I I think that's one of the things I'm most thankful for even though it's right you know like I said I I miss training day to day with everybody at Ironwolf still even after all these years and I'm lucky that I live what five minutes from the place where I I can still come but yeah I miss I miss the the the people and everybody at at alliance and and that stuff's bittersweet but man it's so amazing to just you know uh well there there's similarities to the environment and the the community or the culture right because that's jujitsu but just the way like a back escape is done right right um you know um the the entr well not really enter into Nikki but just different different variations right of some of the same core stuff. Right. But yeah no one of the things you you just talked about uh that I thought was was pretty insightful is you know being a coach uh or being a professor and you know uh somebody you you know you have a practitioner who's really good at Spider Guard and wants to work Spider Guard and that's that's kind of not your thing that's not your juju right you know what and that's something you have to kind of adapt and learn and and focus on and and kind of become that SME but what what are some other lessons um uh that either you've learned from your students or has there been any other type of like changes that you've kind of had to force yourself into because of because of your students?

Cross-Training, Style, And Coaching Adaptation

SPEAKER_03 1:00:45

I think the uh learning how to teach people who are not as flexible as I am, um, and being able to be patient with them, that's been a huge lesson. Um, teaching people who are older that's that because it it's one of those where like uh because they're older they they know a lot already about life but in jujitsu they don't and so you have to have the balance of respect but also hey you're a student you know um and that uh that that's that's a balance that's fun and for me it's fun because it's like hey I can learn just as much from my students as I can teaching them um and so yeah that there's that and then um I think learning the the leg game was something Steve and I started doing a long time ago um and without him my leg lock game the way we do it wouldn't have developed to where it is and it's still gotta grow now it's like we're we're we were ahead of the curve we the curve met us and now we're behind the curve a little bit with it so we're you know we're always learning and adapting to all the new stuff as well so yeah I specific lessons are the the biggest ones really patience with just with people because uh you know people come in your door and they they've got the weight of the world on their shoulders of work and family and uh whatever's going on in their life and they have to they have to put it down to step on the mat because if they don't then those emotions and things come into the roles and then they get frustrated or they get beat up or they do really well and they're arrogant or whatever it might be. And so the the ability to be patient with your students and then also articulate what you need them to do to be successful on the mats with their training partners is very, very important. So all those lessons are are huge and are needed and I I think a good jujitsu coach is able to be the king of the environment and make sure they control it but inspire at the same time and and allow people to have you know freedom in that environment um to be able to just kind of let those those things throughout the day go step on the mats and just you know just be able to train and fall in love with jujitsu the other thing Jance said this one time he he said the difference between weightlifting and jujitsu is the weights are always there and I'm I'm gonna misquote him I think but I'm gonna try to say it the best I can he said the weights are always there and so mentally they do something for him but jujitsu is different because it's someone actually trying to fight you back where the weights are the weights are fighting back and you do have to be focused on them. But as soon as you put the weights down they're waiting for you and you can go back to whatever you were thinking about that's maybe stressful or causing anxiety or whatever. And then you can't do that with jujitsu like you you roll with someone and then you have to stop afterwards and process why they did what they did to you why you did what you did to them. And that's that's something that uh you know something he said that always has always stuck with me because it's I I didn't realize that that's what's that's what keeps jujitsu people the some of the calmest individuals that there are is like we're some of the chillest dudes that are athletes because I mean one we get to release all this you know daily pent up aggression frustration whatever you want to call it we can release that not on our training partner but before we step on the mats we have to let it go because if we don't we might hurt our training partner might hurt ourselves um make an unwise choice and get put in something or stay in something too long and pass out you know um we might accidentally make Jance mad might go he he he said he said that and it just it sh it made so so so much sense to me because lifting with him kind of I go there and I can kind of forget about what's going on but then it still sometimes I I I bring it with me and and it you know I lift the weight and forget about it while I'm lifting the weight but then as soon as the weight's done I go back to that thought on whatever I'm dwelling on and trying to you know problem solve in my brain and I can't do that when I'm teaching and training at all. So it's it's uh I don't know it's that's one of the I think maybe one of the things that helps that's why military guys who have like PTSD do jujitsu because they they literally can't think about whatever's you know in their in their mind that is troubling them they can't think about it because they have to focus on the person that's in their grips right then because that person is uh literally trying to strangle them or trying to break something and if they don't focus on them then they're gonna tap and you know nobody nobody uh wants to tap but we all have to you know so I I think that's one of the powerful things about jujitsu. The another funny thing Jant said is he described jujitsu like a video game he said it's it's like video game with unlimited response and yeah you know you die you respawn you die you respawn you tap you respawn you try something different you know I I thought that was uh it makes so much sense why like nerds like me love jujitsu because it's just like a video game except it's real life.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:04

Yeah can't picture Jance playing video games but he he he must if he heard he's good yeah he's good I always love uh that I well I love the fact that we've we've got to have a second conversation for one um because it's even more uh insights coming out in the second one I've only had um I think one other guest where we had to have a second conversation and each time I have a second conversation with them it's it's even more amazing than the first one. So you know thank you so for uh so much for uh the insights that you're you you've provided so far. I want to kind of go back to to the academy itself. We've been talking a lot about your journey and your um you know kind of philosophy mindset but um I I think it would do do well to talk more uh about the academy uh also um we we we've talked about uh you know uh ironwolf uh growing um at a rapid rate and you you feel like a lot of that has to do with your uh the the kind of organic growth and in word of mouth and right just you've created a good environment a good experience uh but you also mentioned earlier um about how you still kind of have this this core group of people who kind of uh started out with you and are still there my question is you know what type of impact do those kind of core uh people who have been with you from the start have on say the newer members or the continuation of the growth like um it it seems like you know every academy has these cornerstone practitioners you know what what would you think do they bring a specific vibe I mean uh what are your thoughts around that so I think it uh it's true that every every academy has like a core group I think that over time that core group um potentially changes um but it it it really does turn into I guess the family aspect of jujitsu where you know we have a core group that sticks with you for as long as people you know can we're blessed to have people who've been with us for 10 plus years so um and even some of the tungstudio students even before that um and they they I swayed them over to jujitsu from tungstudio thankfully so um but they uh I think it's I think it's very important.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:51

I think the there's pros and cons and the pros the pros are the pros outweigh the cons because the pros are trust establish relationship they already understand the vibe they already understand the the precedent of things and the um standard for the academy the one word that always throws everybody for a loop is change right so if something changes when you grow you change when you add new people things change processes change and sometimes older members can get hung up on that and that's where just a leader I guess has to have a clearly defined direction and say well this is what we're gonna do and we would love for you to be part of it with us. And if you're not we won't get our feelings hurt but um we would you know we think we'd you'd be a great asset and thankfully all the whenever we've had change all the people who are you know still with us um have decided to stick with us uh and to the point now where like even Rebecca and Emily are running a women's only program on our on Saturdays in the academy and that was something um it's a need I think in in the jujitsu world is a place where women can feel safe to train um with whether it's just other women or just to train in general they need they need that that atmosphere and Emily and Rebecca have done a really really good job at at creating that and that's one of those things where they they get together and they say okay what are our strengths what are our you know things within this jujitsu uh world that are our strengths that we can use and bring into class and sometimes they'll try things that I'm I'm not expecting and hit the biggest guys in the rooms with it and it's like wow this is really working so that's that's been something cool but anyways that they've when you have people who've been a core group like that cool things like like that can happen. So the pros outweigh the cons and the one con is just people who've been with you for a long time sometimes have a hard time dealing with change. I I describe Iron Wolf Academy kind of like a battleship.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:58

We're big if you get in our way we're gonna plow over we're gonna keep going nothing's gonna stop us but if we have to make a turn that's going to take a little bit you know um we're not gonna be able to turn on a dime we've we've got to have time we've got to have planning we've got to have preparation and when we make the turn it might be uncomfortable for some people um so yeah that's that's the only only thing with that um man the the to have pops and dentists in the academy is really good because they lend a a perspective of seeing the academy go from 25 people to the hundred and 160 people we have now 170 people we have now um that's crazy and yeah they have a they have a great perspective on that um and David as well David and Nelly they've they've been with me since Ian was a wolf cub and uh and David was a bluebelt you know so um yeah they there's the group we have is a special group but at the same time it's it's a group that's decided to say hey just this thing we're passionate about just like you said it's why you're hooked it's this thing we love we're passionate about so we're gonna stick with it and I'm I'm entirely privileged and blessed to have them in the academy with uh with me and it's been man it's been awesome so yeah that's kind of my two cents on that the the the pros and the cons change is good change is hard sometimes so yeah yeah I love that the Ironwolf uh that they've started the the ladies only course I I saw when that was announced on Instagram and I I think that academies need to to think about having those if they don't have them already right we have kids classes we have adult classes they have master or executive or whatever type classes right but but um you know it's it has nothing to do with with men versus women what it has to do with is um camaraderie esprit de corps um it has to do with let's face it jujitsu along with most martial arts is male dominated and you know it it does come down to to men and women's physicalities and what you I mean you get a lot of guys don't know how to train and roll with uh women and I'll tell you a story real quick is um I I was uh you know white belt when I got to a uh alliance and um I started rolling uh with with females uh more than I had really and the very first time I rolled uh with uh a female uh she was a bluebelt and uh I didn't realize uh how hard I was going and and you know I I I didn't I thought I I was doing well but you know after the round uh professor and even the female I was like yeah you might want to you know and um it was a learning lesson for me um and I I was mindful of that after but my whole point is I it's important for I think the these type of classes and um that way uh well one I think it it improves their jujitsu uh the female is uh improving their ju ju jitsu because you know IBJJF they're not going against you know uh David right they're not going against Jance they're going against you know other females belt level weight class right so right uh you know when eighty percent of the people in the class uh aren't that for them right uh it's it's it's at what point are they are they getting um good sparring time right right right um so that I love it it builds their confidence too to be able to say if I'm I I roll with this monster oh yeah Jance or David or Colin you know that I roll with this monster on a regular basis if they come up against an assailant who is one of those guys' sizes they're gonna I think kill them because they they they just because of the amount of confidence and the skills definitely the skills the skills are you know a lot of it but they have the also the internal confidence to not shut down and just be a victim they're gonna be able to wreck that dude no matter what his size is oh yeah and that gives that gives them power and you know that comes from and it's the same idea I have of rolling with somebody like Jance or V even and having you know I got this 300 pound behemoth trying to get mount on me.

Culture, Safety, And Women’s Program Growth

SPEAKER_03 1:15:42

Okay this is going to be a bad place if this guy gets it but I also know another 300 pound dude who doesn't know what V does and V's one you know one of our purple belts if they he doesn't know what V does he's not getting on top of me and I'm gonna absolutely annihilate him. You know and it gives me and I'm I mean I'm not a big guy but I'm also in the middle of the like jujitsu weight classes so it's like it still gives me confidence when I'm rolling with an ultra heavyweight and it's like well I know I know nothing worse could be in my life right now could be as bad as this ultra heavyweight getting knee on belly on me. There's nothing else in life right now that is going to be as bad as this. So I'm not gonna let it happen because it's still going to be literally the worst thing that happens today. You know so it builds builds confidence when you know you can last through those um trials and those mistakes that are made and you can push through them and then do something you know uh really good and and be able to defend yourself against someone who's that big who doesn't have the skills that we get in jiu jitsu.

SPEAKER_02 1:16:40

Oh yeah I I couldn't agree more. You know I I tell everyone if if you have kids, if you have daughters what have you you know training jujitsu is is is something you definitely need to consider because man when when you have that leg up I even walk around with more confidence and as a grown man 45 years old with more confidence than I've ever had if someone you know if I if I've ever if I ever had to defend myself or defend my family or help somebody out in need and I would imagine it just feels like a superpower if you're 115 pound oh it is you know female walking and you know or you're at work right with a heavily male dominated and someone's messing with you and you know yeah this guy's about to go to sleep and you know you what to do. I um I love that I think it's a great point. I mean it's that's what we want this that's why we start this stuff uh either for like fitness or self-defense and uh it it gives you a huge uh well the la the episode I posted last week I talked about this a little bit about this earned confidence and this earned type of control right it's you know you put in the time and you you you get the skills and you get the benefits of that and the benefits of that is feeling more confident and more safe right yeah yeah and people around you will feel more safe knowing you you know oh yeah oh yeah yeah yeah I I love it and I think it's a great great call out uh you you you we talked about the growth uh a few times here but I I and this is my opinion as someone from from kind of the outside and um of looking into Ironwolf um I feel that Ironwolf is um at least one of the things is is it why it's where it is and where it's going is is because of the vibe the minute you walk in the door, right? I mean I I go and visit and you greet me like it's the first time I've been there hey you come running up we hug fist bump all that stuff and then and I've been gone for a long time and like even as a new person I've seen how they're treated I it it it the relationships extend beyond the mat right and almost off front so you know how well and and I and that's what I feel and that's what I feel is leading to a lot of the growth but how do you want uh the vibe to feel at Ironwolf and is it the vibe that that's currently there I mean and if you had to explain that to somebody how would you um well the first thing I would say is we are not an MMA gym and I don't I don't want the vibe of an MMA gym.

Vibe By Design: Standards, Faith, And Future Plans

SPEAKER_03 1:19:33

I've trained at MMA gyms and I think for the first couple years we were open uh I'm very thankful you did not know us back then um because the vibe was very MMA-ish uh it wasn't entirely that but we had a little bit of angst there and it was partially my my angst that I had um so there's you know there's there's the the idea of being the the master of your environment and the master of the the feel of the gym and if you're not in control of that then very very quickly that certain things can deteriorate because people allow those emotions that they hopefully set aside before they jumped on the mat, they let those on the mat. And so one of the ways we do that is we just make it very clear hey uh there's no language on the mat. And I know things slip out you know people bump, get hurt, whatever, but there's no language on the mat. We want to keep it professional. That's one of the first things people know. The second thing is um some gyms decide you know not to play any music uh during their during their training sessions. I choose to to play music because I think it it helps you kind of shut out some of the other noises um and you can really focus in on the jujitsu you do. And so we're there to learn jujitsu so there's no there's no language the music we play is clean and wholesome sometimes it's it's uh hardcore you know metal but it's clean and wholesome and then um I I really um I I have to give a lot of glory to God for this because the vibe that's there is is on purpose and it's because um of of faith it's because the Spirit of the Lord is over the school and um I I don't I use jujitsu a little bit differently than some of our Tongsu classes because I know we have a lot of people of different backgrounds and different things coming into that class but my my faith is very important to me and so that's very clear as soon as you walk in the door that hey everyone's welcome here. This is a safe place come in and train but there's also a standard and you you will adhere to that standard or we'll ask you to leave you will be courteous to your training partners or we'll ask you to leave you know um and that's just it's just made known from the from the get go. So I I would say the the vibe is uh and especially with some of the things that we are looking to improve upon for the future plans we have because that was actually conversations I had today and and it have been having very recently of goals that we're moving towards that are huge for the school um uh we'll have to have we'll have to do another podcast and hopefully in like a year and a half or two years if these things uh do happen which I mean I want them to so if they do happen we'll come back to this and we'll be like hey remember when we talked about this and that was what I meant. Yeah well if one of those things includes opening a a a new school a new location we can do a live on-site grand opening podcast that that would be that would be huge because that's definitely one of them um that's awesome one of the things uh and one of the things too I think that um has even increased the environment we've we've got is we added Christian as an actual coach at the school we brought him in because he moved down here from Philly he still has his academy in Philly his crew of black belts yeah so Christian's my coach but he's also an employee of mine at the school so that was a huge step forward for us um and then there's there's other things in the works too that are going to be awesome. But yeah so there's there's there's all that and even with those big things that are coming the in I want the environment and the feel to be not just family friendly but to be one where uh everyone everyone that comes in knows they're gonna be in a place where they can train jujitsu and train the martial arts with the goal in mind of of uh either getting in shape or being able to protect themselves and their family because that in in reality and this is the issue I have with some of the people saying like sport jujitsu you can those guys want to be able to defend themselves in a street fight well that's baloney because the the the essence of jujitsu is self-defense. So if you're not learning and I think I think karate and taekwondo and tang sudo schools and kung fu like stand-up schools do a disservice of this because they give some of them give a false sense of security because what they teach is total uh baloney and it it's not like like that's the great thing about jujitsu is we're no no BS let's make sure that this actually works you know right um and so I I tell some parents when they come in they're like is my kid going to learn how to defend themselves like well if they're not I'm not doing my job so you can leave if they're not learning how to defend themselves you know um but when they learn jujitsu you automatically get that so anyways the environment's gonna be family friendly but it also is going to have this high standard and high expectation of treatment of training partners because when you boil it down to the bare bones of what jiu-jitsu is we have and we figured this out during COVID you can't do Zoom meetings and learn jiu jitsu like we tried we did it for three weeks it failed miserably and we were like this is baloney let's get back together and train so like we've done it and we know it doesn't work. You have to have a training partner you need multiple training partners and if you're gonna get really good at jujitsu you need a community to do it with and so the the highest priority is our number one rule at the school is take care of your partner because if you break your training partners you can't train with them they don't want to train with you right or they're broken so they can't train and then no one's learning anything. So that that being the number one rule when we establish that as our our number one not guiding principle but our number one rule is take care of your training partners second rule is do your best and if you're doing those two things we can have fun. We can have lots of fun and we can get a lot of things accomplished whether it's be a successful competitor successful hobbyist successful artist whatever it is those those three things are the three and it sounds so simple it's like it's almost so simple it's it's um too simple but in reality it's that's what it is when you boil it down if you take care of your training partner everything else is going to fall into place. And I think that's one of the main things that um we've established at the school that that helps with that environment being set the way it is. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:26:00

Yeah I love that you uh highlighted folks that yes we're gonna have a good environment yes your kids gonna feel safe everyone's gonna feel safe but uh you're also gonna learn how to defend yourself like you're walking away with this uh from this every day or every every class with something actionable you can use and you know it blows my mind when you see those out there that say say jujitsu uh you know doesn't work on a street fight like 90% of fights end up where on the ground right on the ground yep and you know uh I think a lot of times online you see fights where there's these one hitter quitters right and they're usually sucker punches right uh and and people think that yeah see you would get punched it but that's not how it is and anybody who's ever seen you know Hoyce Gracie in UFC one understands that they can punch and hit all they want and it's not gonna matter. Right right but no I I I I love that um I it's absolutely the vibe that that anyone would feel going in to Ironwolf and you know continues today um I I I think your your vibe's spot on there there are I think gyms out there like you said these MMA gyms right that are terrifying if you go into them um where did I go to I think I went to an American top team gym one time or top team man I was like they're gonna kill me man I'm not I'm not gonna get them right with these guys they're insane um and then and then there's the the the one that focuses on like sport jujitsu like only competition but even those man you're gonna learn the stuff you need to take care of yourself so right right definitely just some real quick fun questions and then then we can close out I know we've been going at it for here about an hour and a half and uh you know uh I love on the I've been able to on the podcast when when I have guests not to as we used to say in to in the military or in the army is that we don't train to time we train to standard right and when we have you know great conversations that keep going uh you know I could we we could probably talk all night but uh we do have day jobs tomorrow and you know uh so just some real quick fun questions and then we'll close out uh you know gi or no gi what what's your preference uh both entirely yeah and and and I agree you have to be you have to train both yeah yeah I I I enjoy both a lot of people um I I think are seeing the sport side of jujitsu lean very heavily towards no gi because it's more exciting for the audience but you can you can make gi exciting for the audience you just can't be you can't be enticed into the laziness of the efficiency of the ghee um but you can make it exciting if you're willing to it just takes a little more effort during the actual rounds um but the um the nogi in and of itself can be it's very hard to make it boring unless it's like and I'll just I'll uh I'm gonna throw all the ultra heavyweights under the bus right now if it's two ultra heavyweights fighting and all they do is pull half guard and then roll around on each other okay yeah that's gonna be boring to anybody but gi or no gi but you get you know um two featherweights fighting in the Ghee versus no gi it's gonna be fascinating either way because they're all super light it's that middle the middleweight the heavyweight the medium heavyweights where it you you have to purposefully train and say whether I'm in gi or no gi my standard is this or whether I'm in gi or no if I'm doing just one or the other especially if they're a competitor um my standard is this and then on the the other side of that coin there's like three sides to every coin on the underside of that coin is the self-defense aspect like if you're training in the gi, okay well what happens when that comes off you know if you're training only no gi, okay, well yeah you can still do all the same moves but what happens when your opponent has a jacket for a grip?

SPEAKER_03 1:30:03

Do you know how to break grips? Do you know how to release their grips so you can do what you need to do. Yeah um so it's to me it's it's all encompassing it's almost like the my idea of of martial arts uh goes into you know all the things encompassing martial arts which is including weightlifting shooting being able to be uh physically in shape and run being able to disassemble uh and handle firearms and all different types of weapons uh I mean no one's walking around with samurai swords but learning blade work learning how to shoot you know old rudimentary weapons like bows and arrows and slingshots and things like that to me that's all they're ways to defend yourself. You can get as good or bad at any of them as you want but you should know at least the basic understanding of all of them if you want to be a true like martial artist and And so in jiu-jitsu, it's kind of that same thing. If you if you really want to get good at jujitsu, look at the top guys in jiu-jitsu. They study both. They may not compete in both, but they study both. Like Gordon Ryan still trains in the gi, because he has pictures of him at Kingsway training in the gi and teaching in the gi. Wagner Rosha, Wagner Rosha is one man. I the more I watch this man, the more I'm like, all right, when I'm his age, I want to be doing what he's doing. Because he's he's in his 40s and he's still competing against guys in their teens and 20s. You know, beating monsters, beating him, beating the snot out of it.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:26

I saw his last fight, it was awesome.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:28

Oh my gosh. And he was on CJI, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:31:31

Yeah. So it's like insane. Yeah. So that guy's crazy.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:34

He's one, and I think it's um uh it's a little I'm gonna give a plug, the grapplers retreat out in California.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:44

Yeah, he was there this year, right? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:46

Oh, he goes every year.

SPEAKER_02 1:31:47

He goes every year, okay.

SPEAKER_03 1:31:49

He goes out there every time. He Alex does a fantastic job with his camp. Um, Jance went and did a Hodger Gracie event out there. And then the next year I went and went with him for Wagner's. And that's when I met Wagner and we established kind of a relationship. So I actually got to go down to Wagner's. Jordan was at a tattoo convention in Miami, and I told her, I was like, we're in Miami. Wagner School is in Miami. I have to go train at least once. And I was blessed to be able to go twice and train uh two times there. And man, I I'll tell you, um uh if you if you look at where Wagner Rosia is right now, I would love to say I don't know what's gonna be there in the next five years, ten years, because he has an immaculate academy. And his vibe, man, his vibe is you walk in and it's just uh the room is just vibrating with excitement, but also vibrating with focus at the same time. It's this it's it's indescribable, it's so cool. It's he's he's yeah, great balance. Anyways, he's he's one that I watch and he he trains both, you know. Um even if he's competing mainly Nogi for the from the from the profitable side of being a competitor, like you you do you do train one more than the other if you're gonna compete for money in it, but you still train both if you're if you're in jujitsu. So yeah, I that's my that's my take on the Giernogi. I know that one quick answer, but that's my take on the gear nogi session.

SPEAKER_02 1:33:13

No, I love it. I love it. And correct me if I'm wrong, I I vaguely remember this happening at Ironwolf, uh, where uh you had noticed that uh I think the crew was well, you had more people training Ghee versus Nogi, and this was some time ago, but then you you had sent out an email or something, and I can't remember if this was before or after I left, but you said, okay, for the next two weeks we're only training no-gi. So you have to you need to come and get some no-gi. Because there's uh and there was another school that I went to that they did something similar where uh to stress the importance, um they said, you know, we're gonna have the next three, four, whatever classes were are gonna be no-gi. And I think that's important, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:33:59

I think that's I I don't think I did I don't think I did that, but I did I changed our schedule to where now Tuesdays and Thursdays, the all the classes on those days are one or the other. So like I get most I get most of my gi practitioners on Tuesdays, and I get most of my no-gi practitioners on Thursdays, and then all the other days are a mix. So Monday and Wednesday are no gi, Friday, Saturday or Gee. Actually, Saturday, we've we've kind of turned into a hybridized class where we train in the gi and drill in the gi, and then when we try, or sorry, we we we drill in the gi and warm up in the gi. So it's a gi class, but when we roll, I tell people, hey, it's the weekend, you have your specific goals for each other. So if you want to roll no-gi and your partner doesn't, then find someone else or be willing to switch back and forth. And that, man, that's actually been kind of a cool thing. Um, I don't know how long that'll last, especially with the winter coming up and how cold it is, but we'll see. You know, it may it may be something we do to the end of the year.

SPEAKER_02 1:34:56

So it's like a class slash open mat.

SPEAKER_03 1:34:59

Kind of, yeah. It's kind of like it's kind of I mean, it's Saturday. Everybody wants to come in on the weekend, do some jujitsu. So I Saturdays, Saturdays right now has been our most, I'm gonna say, lax in um uh not standard of like what we're doing. Um still a very hard class, but it's uh lax in the fact that it's it's relaxed uh training. It's not, hey, we're only training this, these things. It's hey, here's Saturday. This is what we did this week. We recap, drill this to warm up. Okay, now we're gonna set some you know short rounds for specific training. We're gonna start in close guard, don't you know, don't stop unless there's a submission, but you only have 40 seconds. Top person has this goal, bottom person has this goal, go. And we do 10 rounds of that and then we roll. And it's um it's and it's fantastic. I'm loving the way we're structuring classes right now. They're they're they're definitely benefiting everyone, and the quality of the jujitsu in the room is going up exponentially. So, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:35:56

That's awesome. That's awesome. All right, favorite submission. I already know this, but this is for the listeners.

SPEAKER_03 1:36:02

Uh what do you think it is?

SPEAKER_02 1:36:04

Oh, I think it's the Kimura, sir. Oh yeah, oh yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, no, anyway, anyone who meets you for five minutes or at least rolls with you at least once knows that. Yeah.

Quick Hits: Gi vs No-Gi, Favorites, Pet Peeves

SPEAKER_03 1:36:15

Yeah. Kimura, Kimura, uh, Kimura trap system. I love the Kimura trap system. Oh yeah. If you give me any space in an elbow, I will jump on a Kimura. I I I I have to uh how to say that, I have to limit myself with the amount of Kimoras I do every week so that I focus on the actual goals I'm trying to get better at. So I love I love Kimuras. Um right behind that, I'm I'm starting to enjoy um triangles, actually. Uh and the the the idea or the concept of what your legs do with a triangle and how that can be used to effectively do leg locks and do chokes and upper body submissions. Because if you think of what a triangle with your legs does in isolating a limb, it's very powerful in like 50-50 or saddle, and then it's a great choke for the upper body, and then it actually, if you look at it in the crucifix, it has a a place in the crucifix as well. So it's like where where where you need more strength for a grip, use a triangle, and it's I don't know, it's becoming something that I I didn't really enjoy as a color belt, and it's the kind of monkey wrench that's thrown in now that I'm really enjoying playing around with, and it ties in really well with Camoras as well. So yeah, so I would say Camoras and right behind the triangles right now.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:32

Yeah, I um I've started playing around a little bit with with Alma Plottas, which I never thought I would. Who was that guy? The there was a guy that that went there and he still may go there. I think he had long hair. But Bajon Bijan, was it something like that? Yeah, Bajon. That guy is crazy with Alma Plotas.

SPEAKER_03 1:37:50

Yes, that dude can't.

SPEAKER_02 1:37:51

Yes. I mean, what that guy, I remember rolling with him to this day. Anytime I'm in an Alma Plata like technique training, whatever, I think about him. And like the amount of times he landed Alma Plata on me from just insane positions.

SPEAKER_03 1:38:09

Yep. He was a he was a almoplata. I he's one of those guys who there's there's some guys I'll show a move to and they just take it and run with it. And that was like I remember seeing the light bulb go off for him, and he would just, yeah, he he could almoplot a me, and it was to the point as a as a I think it was when I was a uh just a black bell, I hadn't gotten my first degree yet. And I was like, man, this this flipping bluebelt, he I don't think he was a purple yet, he man, he was slapping on, and I was like, I'm not getting out of this. And he tapped me a bunch of times with omaplaws, he just uh fell in love with it.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:42

Yeah, uh yeah, he I was I I remember the first time I rolled with him, I was like, okay, that's might be and then I'm Omaplot, Omaplause like God.

SPEAKER_01 1:38:51

Anyway, all right.

SPEAKER_02 1:38:52

Uh, you know, dream uh training. If you if you could roll with anybody, one session, one five or ten minute session, dead or alive, they can be dead or alive, who would it be?

SPEAKER_03 1:39:03

Oh man, I forgot about this question. Yeah. Uh I should have been more prepared. God, this is, you know, can I give two answers?

SPEAKER_02 1:39:12

You can give two answers.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:13

Can I give two answers? Okay. So the the the I love, I enjoy rolling with my coach. Christian, Christian is a unique role in and of himself. And I have to I have to say that not because he's my coach, but because that's the truth. Rolling with him and and being getting the privilege of rolling with him as much as I get to now versus just when I would go up to his academy is um it's fantastic. And it's um uh it just makes me realize how much I still have to learn about jujitsu. So there's there's that. But the innovative person, I think, one one of the most innovative people in jujitsu was Holes Gracie.

SPEAKER_01 1:39:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:39:53

So I I would I would love to roll with him. That would be that would be fun, and that would be fantastic. Um man. To be honest, I I would I would love to roll. It would be a quick 30-second tap more than likely, but I would love to roll with Cobrina because Cobrina was one of my first like jujitsu uh heroes, him, him or one of the Mendez brothers. Yeah, because they I I watched all of Cabrina's stuff coming up. Um and I never got to roll with him. I got to train in his academy three three classes, and I learned more in those three classes at that point than I'd learned in probably the month prior, two months prior. It was fantastic. Um but he he he was one uh that that that I would really I'd really like to roll with if I could. He's he's yeah, he's a phenomenal athlete and martial artist. So yeah, he he would he would probably be my top top pick. I probably uh if I could, I would pick 10, but he would be my top pick more than likely.

SPEAKER_02 1:40:53

Yeah. I think Holes would be on my list, uh, just to to maybe not to roll. I mean, I'm not a black belt, so it's a little different um to say a blue belt to roll with somebody legendary like that, but uh to be taught, right? To be in a training or just kind of a uh maybe a positional round or whatever. I've I've been lucky. Uh I've got to train with obviously some, you know, yourself included, some phenomenal people. And um, you know, uh I got to roll with Leo Naguerra. That was crazy insane. I try I tried the Sao Paulo Paso. I mean, you know that's his movie choked God, he cut the crap out of me. But anyway, yeah, I think those are good guys. I like I like holes. I like um it's just such a big part of jujitsu, man. Oh yeah, it's insane. Um what what what's your uh what's your favorite favorite? What is your biggest pet peeve um that you know? Is it somebody with ego? Is it somebody who doesn't bam? I mean, what what is it? What what really irks you? Now I know profanity does, but you have we've talked about that, right? And uh and I I've been victim to that because I've I've been somebody on one of your mats, uh, on your mat that lets something slip a couple times. But what's your what's your pet peeve, you know?

SPEAKER_03 1:42:08

Uh it's it's it it I wouldn't call that a pet peeve. I just want the standard of the room to stay, you know, really high. So but but everybody shuts their finger in a car door and lets something out, you know. Like I get that. There's there's grace there. But I I cannot uh I think this is because uh more recently than not, I've had I uh we were out of town for a week, and the complaint I got from all of my members about kids, adults, whomever, was they didn't cut their fingernails and toenails. So this is new, probably since we talked last time. Um the fingernails and toenails not being cut, like okay, grown men and grown women not cutting their own fingernails and toenails down enough to not scratch the ever-living fool out of somebody. Um that's right now even more so than ego, because ego you can you can have a conversation with that individual, and if they really want to get good at jujitsu, they're gonna adjust, hopefully, you know. But a grown man or grown woman who just forgets the cleanliness and like not trimming their nails, coming into class with a dirty ghee, coming it's just so I would say it's just overall cleanliness, like coming in with a dirty ghee. Hygiene, yeah. Hygiene, yeah, coming in with and not realizing they have ringworm on their leg coming in and um uh there's there's a couple different individuals I've I've had in the gym who I just have to tell them, hey man, your feet stink. Like I don't know what you know, shoes you wear or whatnot, but maybe you want to think about you know that maybe go wash your feet off a little bit. Um I had I had a guy in a tournament I competed against one time, he had a like abscess on his side. It looked like a giant pimple with a white head on it, and I was like staff infection right there, brother. Bro, yeah, I I I rolled with him. I rolled with him and I stayed as far away from that thing as I could. Um, I didn't get staff from it, thankfully. But like, yeah, it any any just the overall cleanliness, and I think that comes from me as a as a coach and a school owner, because you know, you get one big outbreak of like staff remerso in your gym, it can be the to the detriment of a lot of people, you know. It could potentially shut down the gym, but oh yeah, it costs you money, man.

SPEAKER_02 1:44:17

I mean, that's messing with your business. High bad hygiene is messing with the bottom line. Because if you get a staph outbreak, because like like me, oh yeah, I don't roll uh when I have even like an ingrown hair because uh my body uh overproduces staph. It's something I learned in the military when I got like kept getting these bad staph infections for like ingrown hairs and stuff. Like if I just have ingrown hair like on my leg or something, I won't train until it's gone. Because uh yeah, I mean my body like uh uber produces staff. It's weird. Um but yeah, man, I mean people don't think about that. And I've started now where before training, especially now that I work from home when I go training, uh, I'll take a shower before and after. Oh, nice. I'll take it before um because man, yeah, it sucks rolling. Uh like I I've rolled with people who you could smell alcohol on. I'm like, guys, this guy drinking, and it was at a morning class, man. At a morning class, bro. Like, did you seriously come to the club from the club and say, I'm gonna train jujitsu? Oh man. I just I just got done on that train.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:26

That's so dumb. Yeah, uh, it's bad.

SPEAKER_02 1:45:29

No, I I think that would be yeah, I think that should be anybody's pet peeve right there. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_03 1:45:34

I um I mean, like, I've I've dealt with some egos and I've dealt with injuries um and people doing doing stupid excuse me, stupid stuff. But like just I mean, and I I I I've been I've been that guy, and I'm sure you've experienced this in the in the military where you're just out, you know, hiking or doing drill or whatever, and you you go like we would when we were hiking in California, we would go you know eight weeks without a shower, but that didn't mean we weren't clean. We would hang, you know, sun showers and clean. We would uh try to wash off and you know, bring a pot of water and boil it and then wash off with it. We'd try to clean our clothes with soap and water. So like we weren't we were dirty, but we weren't like you know, nasty. Um we just hadn't had a shower in in you know eight weeks. It didn't mean we hadn't bathed or we hadn't, you know, had a birdbath with soap and water and rinsed off, you know. But even the people who come, yeah, somebody who comes in and they're just not they're not clean, they haven't clipped their nails, they haven't prepared for class. Uh it just yeah, that's my probably my biggest pet peeve. And then I can't like I understand that I'm not a parent, so I can't um I can't speak to this as heavily, but like parents, if you're listening to this, trim your kids' toenails and fingernails. Like they don't know to they don't know to do it yet. So you you are gonna have to do it for them. And for every jujitsu coach out there, I would suggest before class, like do a do a nail check. I have the kids now on Saturday mornings because kids' classes in the in the in the week are all ghee, but Saturday mornings are no gi. So every Saturday morning now, what I'll do is I'll walk up and go, all right, stick your hands out. They hold their hands out and I check their nails. Because last week I cut five kids' fingernails because their fingernails had like raptor wolverine raptor claws on the end of them. Yeah, and so and you know, parents are busy, they got everything going on they got going on. So I I don't blame the parents, but it's like a reminder, hey, your kids don't, they're six, seven, eight, nine, maybe ten. They don't know to do this unless you've taught them. Um I know they're not learning it from anybody else, so you've got to teach them. Yeah, and so I I mean I get that that opportunity, which is great. I can say, hey, do you know how to cut your nails? No, mom and dad haven't taught me yet. Oh, or yeah, mom and dad taught me. I'll clip them all the time. Like, well, hey, before jiu-jitsu, clip your nails. So I don't know how to do it. Okay, well, come see me before jujitsu and I'll clip your nails. Um, but with adults, it's like, like with kids, there's a grace there, but with adults, it's like, come on, man, like you're you're 35. You should know to cut your fingernails, you know?

SPEAKER_02 1:48:01

So I think also I think also putting lotion on, you know, hey, put some lotion on your feet, right? If you have a little lotion on so it's not not so so snowy.

SPEAKER_03 1:48:12

Um, but no, that's that yep, 100%. Yeah, yeah.

Parting Advice: Don’t Quit, Keep Learning

SPEAKER_02 1:48:15

I think hygiene's gotta be, I mean, it's just for adults, there's no excuse, you know. The adults there's no excuse for for having bad hygiene. So right. Well, exactly. Well, thanks so much for entertaining those those few uh kind of off-topic questions. Uh, you know, Caleb, I I appreciate the time. And you know, you've you've you have been and continue to be a huge part of my jujitsu journey. And Iron Wolf. Yeah, and Iron Wolf is always gonna be uh, you know, uh that OG home for me. And um, as we close out here, I don't know if there's any kind of uh lasting thoughts you you have to those who are newer to jujitsu, and then also maybe to to those who are thinking about you know starting their own academy or have their own academy. Uh if there's any you know kind of final words or thoughts you would you you would want to give to them, I'd love to give you an opportunity to to share that.

SPEAKER_03 1:49:17

Yeah, uh thanks, man. Uh thank you for the opportunity to share it and to be on the podcast with you. Um the biggest thing is just don't don't give up, you know, uh push through it, have grit. Um and remember that underneath, and this is something I tell the guys at the school, underneath everybody's belt, depending on the company you buy your belt from, obviously, but the majority of the companies, the belt underneath the colors is still white. So everybody's everybody's a white belt. We just colors on our belt dict are the representation of the time that we've put in and the experiences we have. That's nothing, that's all the belt means. It doesn't, it doesn't make us an amazing person, you know. It does mean that we've we've been through a lot on the mats and we've seen a lot on the mat. So yeah, no, just don't give up. That that saying that every black belt's a white belt, he just didn't give up. I mean, really, it really is true. Um, same for school owners. You know, if you're trying things and you're just not making it, and just try something else and make it make a change. Uh, you know, do something, do something a little bit different, make adjustments just like you do with your jujitsu game. And and things do get better in the long run. So just keep at it. Don't uh the other thing is don't be afraid to challenge yourself, don't be afraid to jump out there, put yourself out there, compete and lose. Um the the remember the coach, if it's a practitioner listening, remember that your coach has failed more times than you've succeeded. Um and failed more times than you've even tried at this point. I think it's how the saying goes. And that's true too. Like if you look at if you look at the guys who are up there at world champion levels, that they've failed, they've tried and failed more than any any person who's watching them has even tried certain things yet. So just keep at it, don't give up. Um and find the find the community that uh that'll challenge you and not um just let you do what what you you feel feel is good in jujitsu. Like put get with people who push you, get with people who you know tell you take you to the next level and and help you get to the next level, and then reach down for the guy behind you, you know. So yeah, that's uh that's pretty much it. Um thanks, man. I appreciate you, Joe. Thank you for what you're doing.

SPEAKER_02 1:51:36

Yeah, yeah. Thanks for always supporting, and I don't think it could be uh said any any better. You know, thank you for your time, your wisdom. You know, uh anytime I have any questions, I always re- I can reach out. I know I can reach out to you and you respond. Uh, you know, same day for most of most of my crazy questions. So I appreciate you. Thanks again for being here and for the listeners. Uh until next time, keep your passion brewing, and we'll see you in the next episode.