Black Belt Chats : Professor DJ Farmer

What does a quarter-century of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu experience teach you about martial arts, personal growth, and life itself? Fourth-degree black belt DJ Farmer unwraps this question with remarkable clarity, walking us through his 27-year journey from martial arts-obsessed teenager to becoming a first-generation black belt under the legendary Romero "Jacare" Cavalcanti.

DJ's story traces the fascinating evolution of BJJ in America—from the wild early days when techniques were measured in "hours with the Gracies" to the systematized curriculum approach that's transformed how we learn today. With refreshing humility, he shares how watching Royce Gracie in early UFC events sparked an obsession that eventually led him to move across states just to train at Alliance, where he witnessed the school's growth from grassroots beginnings to global powerhouse.

The conversation illuminates the profound transformation in teaching methodologies over the decades. Where new students were once "thrown to the wolves," modern approaches create accessible entry points for practitioners of all ages and abilities. DJ's insights on instructor responsibility, particularly his stance that teachers should observe rather than participate during class to ensure student safety, offer valuable guidance for anyone in a teaching role.

Beyond techniques and training methods, DJ reveals the deeper wisdom that only comes from decades on the mats. His approach to teaching encompasses visual, auditory, and kinesthetic learning styles, while his three simple post-class questions ("Did you learn something new?", "Did you have fun?", and "Did you get a good workout?") provide a framework for evaluating any training session. Perhaps most memorably, he shares colorful stories of Jacare's Brazilian sayings and teaching methods that have shaped multiple generations of practitioners.

Whether you're just starting your BJJ journey or already deep into it, DJ's parting advice resonates powerfully: maintain consistency, leave your ego at the door, and always approach learning with an open mind—because "a parachute works best when it's open, just like your mind." Ready to transform your approach to learning and training? This episode is your blueprint.

@dj.farmer on Instagram 

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Keep Your Passion Brewing

Transcript

Episode Introduction with DJ Farmer

Speaker 1 0:01

Welcome to Caffeinated Jiu-Jitsu the blend of white belt enthusiasm, black belt wisdom and a dash of caffeine for that extra kick. Dive deep into the world of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as we explore the journey, techniques, challenges and the sheer joy of the sport from a white belt's perspective, from intriguing interviews with renowned coaches and professors to playful fun episodes that'll have you chuckling mid-roll. We've got it all brewed and ready Now stepping onto the mats and into your ears here's your host, joe moats, of Jiu-Jitsu.

Speaker 2 1:01

I am your host, joe Motes, and with me today in our Black Belt chat series. I'm super excited to have really an old soul in Jiu-Jitsu. Here we have DJ Farmer. He is a fourth degree Black Belt. He is a dedicated instructor at Alliance and, even more cool, he is a first generation Black belt under master hamero jacare calvacanchi, and he comes to the table and to the mic today with 27 years of experience in jujitsu, so we've got a lot to talk about. He's also a third degree black belt in taekwondo is that correct, dj? That's Awesome. He's been practicing martial arts pretty much most of his life since he was eight years old. So without further ado, welcome DJ. Thank you for being here.

Speaker 3 1:55

Thanks so much for having me, Joe, Really and really honored to be here with you.

Speaker 2 1:59

I'm excited to have you here. It's been a long time coming. You and I have been talking probably for a couple months now, maybe longer, about getting you on the show and schedules finally lined up and, yeah, excited to have the chat. So let's, uh, let's start out. If you could tell us a little bit about you, about your background, kind of what got you into jujitsu all of those years ago. And, uh, jen, anything you want to share that may have left out in introducing you.

Speaker 3 2:25

Okay, um, yeah, my name is DJ Farmer. Um, I'm originally from Arkansas. I started doing a Korean martial art called Tong Soo Do when I was a little kid, probably around eight years old, eight, nine years old, and, you know, trained for a couple of years at the kind of like a boys club, like a YMCA type type setup. And you know, my mother and I moved to Little Rock when I was going into sixth grade, so I was like 11, I think, and I started doing taekwondo. I saw a demonstration out at a water park and I walked up to the main instructor who had just like kicked the board off a guy's head you know what I mean and I was like, wow, that's super cool. So I walked up to him and I said, I said, excuse me, sir, I said if I decided to train, would I be in the kids class or the adults class? And you know I'm just about to turn 12 and at that time I think I was like maybe six foot tall as a 12 year old, so it's pretty tall. I hit a growth spurt. He was like, man, you're almost as tall as me. You'd definitely be in the adult class. So, um, I told my mom I was like I have an appointment on thursday and she goes, you have an appointment, like yeah, you have to take me over to this martial arts school. I scheduled myself a, an introductory lesson and, um, she was like okay, so she took me over and I just fell in love with, with martial art, with taekwondo. I started training and competing and did that basically from like I said 11 and 12 till when I was about maybe 22, 23. Oh, wow, yeah, and that you know pretty much was my lot of people. I saw, you know, hoist Gracie fight in the first UFC and was just instantaneously hooked on trying to figure out how the heck I was going to learn this new style that I'd heard about.

Speaker 3 4:14

One of my friends actually had seen the first one and kind of described it to me. I actually watched the second one first and then went back and watched the first one. Yeah, me, I actually watched the second one first and then went back and watched the first one. Yeah, but the guy who had met, he said, man, there's this like, there's this guy, I think he's from like guatemala and he he wears you know, he's a jujitsu guy, so he wears like a gi and his whole family does it. He walks into the ring and he chokes these guys unconscious in like a couple of minutes and I'm like what? And I'm thinking like he's like literally like choking them up against a fence or something and then they just pass out. I'm like what in the heck is that about, you know? And the first time I saw it it was like, you know, hoist is keeping the distance and all of a sudden he shoots and takes the guys down and all of a sudden the commentators go well, it's over, it's over, folks, he's not gonna, he's not, he's not gonna make it for much longer. And sure enough, the guy was done, you know, and that happened over and over again, and some of the guys who was fighting were just massive, huge guys, you know, and he was only maybe 5, 10 and like 180 pounds or something like that. Um, and I was just mesmerized. I couldn't believe that, you know, and against every different kind of style you can think of, you know, and and you know, I just really, really got hooked.

Speaker 3 5:33

And back in those days in Arkansas, anyone who had done jiu-jitsu, like basically, were counting the amount of hours that they had with the Gracie family. They'd go out to California and do a seminar, or you know a seminar around the country, or they'd they had with the Gracie family. They'd go out to California and do a seminar, or you know a seminar around the country, or they'd go train with the Gracie family in California and they're oh, that guy's got like 50 hours with the Gracies, well, that guy's got like a hundred hours with the Gracies. It was like that was kind of the benchmark back in the day and me and my friends and my instructors would always, you know, sit around and think about, man, if you could train with anyone in the whole world, who would you want to train with? It was like, man, I would just love to train with somebody in the Gracie family, or you know, train jujitsu full time. That would be amazing. So that was always.

Speaker 3 6:14

The goal was to try to find, you know, find a full-time school. And my sister moved to. I moved to Houston for about a year and a half and my sister moved to Atlanta and right around the same time, like 96 or so, and um, my sister invited me to come for a um for Thanksgiving, you know, with her and her friends, and she invited me to Atlanta and she said I think that they have like um, uh, I think's you like jujitsu, right? And I said yeah, yeah, she said I think there's a jujitsu school down the street from my house and I said I was thinking it's like maybe Japanese jujitsu or you know something like that. And she said I think it said Garcia, jujitsu, maybe Garcia.

Speaker 3 7:02

And I said Gracie, she goes, maybe that's it, it. She goes. There's this big like blue, yellow and green flag on the glass. You know what I mean, and I'm like that's a Brazilian flag. I'm like Brazilian jiu-jitsu in Atlanta, huh. So yeah, yeah, I'll come visit for Thanksgiving, you know. And I went to visit my sister and ended up taking a class and, uh, I looked online and you know it had the, you know the 56k dial-up internet. You know what I mean the aol.

Speaker 3 7:29

You got mail, yeah and sure I still hear that sound right yeah, you can hear the, and you know, sure enough, jock ray had a website. You know, um, one of his students, I think was a web web designer or something, and got him set up with a website. And I called one of his students, I think was a web designer or something, and got him set up with a website. And I called and spoke with his wife and ended up getting a class scheduled. And I walk in with my with a big, oversized like judo gi and my and I didn't have a white belt, so I just have my Taekwondo black belt.

Speaker 3 7:59

I like walked in with my Taekwondo black belt and the big judo gi on and I walked in and I said, hey, elaine. I said I don't have a white belt. Is there any way you could? Can I borrow a white belt or can I buy one? And she says, yeah, let me go in the back and get one.

Early Martial Arts Background

Speaker 3 8:13

So, of course, while she was away, jacare walks in the door with his pit bull and hey, man, you can't wear that here. I said, oh, wear that here. I said, oh, no, sir, I'm sorry your wife is going to go. Um, give me a white belt in the back. She's coming right back because, man, you can't wear that here, because, man, you like a white belt, you can't wear black belt here. Yes, sir, I understand, I took it off and I'm just waiting for your wife to bring me a white belt, because you can't wear that here. And yes, sir, I understand. And so then I went back, I put on the white belt, you know, stretched out a little bit and I, you know, did my first class and that was pretty much it. You know, I've been at Alliance since that was 98. I literally went, flew back home, packed up all my stuff, put it in the U-Haul, towed my car behind it and drove from Houston to Atlanta and I was there by, say, february of that next year, and that's it. Been training with Jacare since.

Speaker 2 9:11

So you've got to see Alliance grow from ground floor to what it is now. You know, yeah, thinking about just really quick while it's on my mind, what are some of your insights and thoughts on where we're at now as a school, or even jujitsu as a whole, versus where you were back when you first walked through that door, or maybe when you first saw jujitsu on TV, like so many of us have that same story about, you know watching hoists and stuff like that.

Speaker 2 9:41

I mean to see that evolution has got to be crazy. Yeah, yeah, I mean to see that evolution.

Speaker 3 9:44

It's got to be crazy, yeah yeah, I mean, I was really fascinated. I've always been really fascinated with the history and you know just the culture of jiu-jitsu and where it came from and how it evolved, and you know it's definitely, you know, very, very into self-defense and you know, I remember, you know Elio Gracie one time said I'm not a fighter, I'm a teacher. And I just I didn't. You know, I want to make myself available to show my students that what I'm teaching actually works. You know. So he made himself available for, you know, for challenge matches and whatnot, but he first and foremost was an instructor. You know, and they all kind of had that kind of similar mindset. You know, and you know I started, you know, training with Jacare and Alliance was, I think, a two-time world championship team at that time. But you know still very kind of grassroots. And you know close, close ties to Brazil and you know we had, maybe, you know, a couple of locations around the world, like in, maybe Finland or one of the other countries, but predominantly was in Brazil. And you know, as, as the, you know, as the demand grew for jujitsu, you know there started to be little. You know tournaments popping up here and there and the, the association, really got organized and and there was a lot more opportunity to compete.

Speaker 3 11:03

But when I first started, I mean we had the jujitsu training that we did with the Gi. Jacques and I focused a lot on, like self-defense and that aspect of it as well. And then there wasn't really no Gi. There was, like you know, kind of what they called NHB training back then no holds barred training where we would wear, you know kind of like almost like bicycle shorts, you know kind of like kind of spandex type shorts and just a T-shirt. We didn't even have rash guards back then and it was more towards like keeping the distance, not getting hit, shooting, kicking, you know punching to bridge the gap to take down the person, or kick in the person to bridge the gap, to go for the, the clinch and the takedown, or kick in the person to bridge the gap, to go for the, the clinch and the takedown. So it was. We learned jujitsu from a bunch of different perspectives, you know, but it was all jujitsu, you know it wasn't.

Speaker 3 11:52

Now there's sport jujitsu that focuses more on competing, and then there's the. You know, a lot of people kind of try to divide jujitsu into. My school is more self-defense oriented. My school is no gi, my school's more gi and you know we did everything and everything was you know, you had to know you know everything and was a really good resource. He obviously was raised with the, with the Gracie family and and had holes Gracie as his instructor, so he was able to to show us a lot.

Speaker 3 12:21

And back then when I first started, there was a handful of blue belts, maybe six to eight blue belts, maybe 10. And most everybody was white belts. A handful of like blue belts. I was like maybe the second generation, second or third, you know second generation of guys that kind of came through Jacare, came to Atlanta in like 96. And I like I said I was like 98 or so, that, that I came in for the first time in 99 when I, you know kind of you know, signed up and everything. So I was that second kind of tier of guys that came through. So imagine, like 90% of the people were white belt, you know, 10% were blue and he was the only black belt that even you know had seen. You know had seen for many, many, many, many, many years, you know.

Speaker 2 13:07

Yeah, as somebody. So, as I mentioned before, we even hit record. You know, a lot of our listeners are within their first, you know, one to three years, and every listener, or everyone who's new to jiu-jitsu, obsesses in a different way. One of the ways I obsess, besides training, is, you know, I like to study. You know, I've read all of Drysdale's books. You know, done as much research online as I possibly could, and as someone that has only about two years of training and as a blue, you know and I'm a blue belt there's a noticeable difference between jujitsu today and jujitsu when you started, and you know. My question is you know, do you think there's advantages?

Speaker 3 13:54

and disadvantages to the way it's evolved.

Speaker 3 13:55

Not necessarily, I think it's, you know it really depends on, you know, the instructor, you know the instructor.

Speaker 3 14:01

It's kind of goes back to that old Miyagi thing where, you know, teach a safe student, do no question, you know I was lucky enough to have somebody, you know that I again I kind of got jujitsu from the source, from, you know, jacare, who had, who had, you know, very much been influenced by the Gracie family who you know obviously have done you know so much for for jujitsu have a tendency to focus, you know, maybe a little bit more on competition.

Speaker 3 14:33

Or you know, some people are very, you know no, key focused. Or you know, you may be, um, training at a place, maybe in a rural area, where it's like a MMA type gym and they maybe do a little jujitsu. You know what I mean. So, um, you know I think everyone has something to offer, but I think there's a lot more variations on who teaches what and how they teach it. But typically, if they have a jiu-jitsu-focused program, they typically should be able to somewhat trace their roots back to some sort of branch, I guess, of you know what we kind of know is, I guess, old school, I guess yeah, yeah, I think I, you know that's.

Speaker 2 15:19

I think it's a great response. And um, yeah, I've trained at other gyms, uh, outside of alliance, like when I travel, and yeah, you can always find, you know, a little bit of stimulants anywhere. Now, I don't have a lot like yourself to compare it to. Right, you've been training, you know, for 27 years almost, man, 30 years almost. I mean, if you think about it, you're getting there. But we need to come up with a centennial-like type coin for you guys. But no, that's true.

Speaker 2 15:54

I always like to ask black belts a similar question. I just kind of ask you, especially those that have a lot of years in training and have seen this what are we like? The third wave, they call it, or second wave? You're a first wave guy. Come through. So it's always good to hear that. You know, because I've um, I sit back and watch on ig, this big debate and gi and no gi, and guard pulling versus non-guard pulling, just like, yeah, jiu-jitsu was created around the guard, you know. So what are you talking about? It's always going to be there. Um, no, that's good insight, man, really good.

Speaker 3 16:34

Yeah, I mean 27 years does sound like a really long time, but honestly, I just started training, had great instructors, great friends, met a lot of great people and you know they have a saying in jujitsu a black belt's a white belt that never quit.

Speaker 1 16:51

You know what they have a saying in jujitsu a black belt, so white belt that never quit.

Speaker 3 16:53

You know what I mean. I just I'm the, I'm the one of the, you know, oldest running students at our school, just because I never left. You know a lot of people, life, you know, takes them in different directions, or maybe they get injured or frustrated or whatever. The issue is where they decide that they're going to stop training. I just that was never an option for me. I just, you know, continued to stay and I kind of figured if I stay here long enough, they'll have to give me a black belt, you know. So I just kept training and doing my best and, you know, and got really involved with teaching alongside Jacare. Jacare started the what we now know as like the fundamental and the intermediate class, and I was part of that first kind of crop of guys when alliance started to become, you know, more, I wouldn't say more organized, but you know what I mean like started to put some different things in place, to kind of like curriculum based teaching.

Speaker 3 17:42

Yeah, like standardized standardized our methodology and and fabio and jacquard a, you know, you know, got together several times as well and put together this whole, like you know, fundamentals program and that incorporated, you know, because when I started you just got thrown to the wolves. I mean, if you were, if you were tenacious enough and curious enough to come back and just keep coming back, then you kind of got hooked. But a lot of people would come in. And that goes back to your question how is it different today than it is was back then?

Speaker 3 18:13

You know, when I started, you know the ufc was relatively still young and we would have guys here that there's a brazilian jiu-jitsu place and because of hoist's popularity we'd have guys come in and you know, want to come in and try it out, but they didn't really want to try it out, they wanted to test it out, you know. So you know j, you know Jacare would would put, you know, somebody with a fairly decent guy that's been there for a little bit and you know your eyes got open really quickly whether you know whether what you did worked or you know, and the guys who had, you know, a really good attitude, I know guys that were really aggressive when they first came in and you know, kind of just got genteely put in their place, if you know what I mean, and we just couldn't believe that this was happening and and ended up signing up and became becoming really good students, you know so. But I was part of that. That first crop of guys that were instructor certified to, you know, to teach our curriculum and, and you know that was I got my black belt in 2009. So just a little bit before I think it was like a purple or brown belt when I started, you know, teaching with Jacques A fairly regularly and you know, got my certification when I was a black belt and you know, and and kind of.

Speaker 3 19:30

So that's the. The big difference is that, you know, like I said, when I first started, I just got thrown to the wolves. You know, you, you it was sink or swim. The first move I think I ever learned at the school was like a half guard sweep. You know not.

Speaker 3 19:43

And a lot of guys, you know, I think they kind of take it for granted that their first day they learn class number one. They, you know about leverage and base and self-defense and what the mount is, and you know. You know if I'm in the mount I can hit you and you can't hit me. And most of the guys in the bottom try to shove you off like this. And then you arm bar or they don't want to get hit in the face, they turn on their belly and you go for the rear naked choke.

Speaker 3 20:08

That's like the standard stereotypical kind of first class right and I didn't get that. I just got like, okay, man, let's go. Everyone starts running in circles and doing four rolls and you know I can't imagine what I looked like when I first started and then, okay, let's come over here, we're going to do a sweep from the half guard and my first day, you know. Now it's very, very, very you know we don't want the person to even risk, you know, being uncomfortable or being, you know, having the risk of getting injured or yeah, coming in and and being, you know kind of put in a position where whoever you know everyone else knows and you don't so like pretty much like to teach the person just like any other person. When you walk a kid into kindergarten or first day of first grade, you can't just be like, okay, jump in, we're doing long division Fire up your Chromebook as a kindergartner.

Speaker 3 21:06

It's like okay, little Johnny, you feel comfortable? Yeah, I see some kids in there, I know my age. Okay, let's just sit down and hang out for a second. Little Johnny, you feel comfortable? Yeah, I see some kids in there, I know my age, you know. Okay, let's just sit down and hang out for a second, Okay, yeah, yeah, these kids are just like me. And then, slowly but surely, they start to learn, and and day one becomes day two, and day two becomes day three, and, and it's a lot more. That's the big difference between then and now.

Speaker 3 21:29

Just to be honest, it's not the curriculum, it's not no gi or gi. It's the way we're able to kind of take somebody from ground zero. You know, really give them a good experience. You know, find out what they want to get out of it. Maybe they like no gi, maybe they like gi. Maybe they like self-defense, maybe they like to compete, maybe they don't like to compete. Maybe they want to compete, maybe they don't like to compete. Maybe they want to lose 20 pounds, maybe they want to get through the warm-up without feeling like they're going to throw up.

Evolution of Jiu-Jitsu Teaching

Speaker 3 21:57

I've seen guys come in 300 pounds. They couldn't run around the mat one time. Stop, put their hands on their knees, start breathing hard, and then next class, they made it around one and a half times and they have to take a break and next thing, you know, they're. You know they've lost a ton of weight, met a ton of friends. You know a lot of people. They're a little, maybe, heavier set when they come in. They're kind of loner folks. They don't really, you know. They. They find a community, you know, and they, yeah, you know, make friends, get in shape. That's the cool thing about jiu-jitsu is that you, you can, you know, make friends get in shape. That's the cool thing about jujitsu is that you, you can, you know, do something physically, mentally and somewhat kind of spiritually. You can do all those things at the same time while getting in good shape, learning some really cool stuff, meeting other cool people. You know what I mean, right? Yeah, you know what I'm saying.

Speaker 2 22:47

So it's like your community is huge, right, I mean, that's a, a big, big draw to jujitsu. What? And you don't even realize that until you get involved, right, and, like you, you have no clue. The, the closeness, I mean, let's just say the closeness, and in how? And I say this a lot well, it's, yeah, literally right, we're on top of each other, but it's how quick the bonds form. Right, there may be onesies and twosies off there, they're just, maybe the personalities don't vibe, but they typically end up not coming back. But, overall, like, you're almost instantly vibing with 90% of those that are there and you come from all different walks of life. Right, ceos are on the mat, doctors are on the mat, rns, recruiters, right Manufacturer workers, ups.

Speaker 3 23:33

Me too.

Speaker 2 23:34

I'm a recruiter too, yeah, so and yeah, we have that in common too.

Speaker 2 23:42

But you know, back to what you were saying about curriculum. So I know myself I've benefited greatly being involved in a curriculum type approach because, you know, when I joined Alliance, I had some training before and I I thought I had pretty good jiu-jitsu right. I was like I know, know some of this stuff. I was you know, and even how to pull guard and and things like that. But, like it was some of the other stuff that I didn't know yet, like how to break a grip right and or even the different types of grips, you know and you know some of what we consider basic, like folding pass and you know the different variations of single leg takedowns, which is and you learn all of that through that curriculum training. And what I love is at Alliance, or you know, at our gyms our gyms, like Alliance, that do the curriculum based is, you know, by the time you get ready to sparve, you have some tools to enjoy using. You're not just getting crushed and you're still going to get beat Right.

Speaker 2 24:46

But, you're going to, you're going to, you're going to. Oh, wow, I put a knee shield in. That was cool.

Speaker 3 25:07

So I really value that curriculum based approach and I think it's just you're getting a move here, getting a move there, getting you know it's hard to retain. You know, you know all that. I remember I learned to move one time. You know that move when you know you're in the arm bar, just a regular arm bar. Maybe you're mounted and then you go for the arm bar and you're sitting on your butt and you got the arm bar. And I learned this move when I was a blue belt and I couldn't wait to go back and tell everybody you get your the leg that's over the belly. You kind of get your foot and you put it next to their inside, their, their, their arms, next to their neck and then you take the trap off and when they sit up you get them in a triangle, triangle yes, yes, yeah, yeah, we worked out last week.

Speaker 3 25:47

It was awesome. So I I showed that, thinking I learned this just magic move and all these guys that I trained with go. You haven't learned that yet, like we learned that when we were white belts. Jacare showed me that and I was like that's the day I wasn't there. I guess you know yeah.

Speaker 3 26:02

And so you know you were just kind of lucky to get a move. Sometimes the best moves you would get I would do. I wrote down everything when I first started training and I really encourage people to. If you're training, don't expect it to go in one ear and out the other. You know there's something about when you write something down it activates a different part of your brain. You know what I mean. So if you write it down, you know you're you're spending a lot of money on shih tzu. Why learn something that you're just going to forget, right? So you know I always, you know, after class, would write down what we did. I would put, like the techniques Jacare showed I would show. Or I would write down like moves from blue belts that I'd learned to move from. You know what I mean. So, asking other students, you know they would show me. Hey, what did I do? Did that do okay, when I was rolling? Or oh, you're doing this and try this. Or you know I would write down those little notes, you know, and really became a student of it, and that's really what I encourage, you know people to do. Is it just write it down so that you have something to go back and reference. But, like I said, it usually tends to stick If you write it down, you're you're a lot more able to recall that kind of stuff and then.

Speaker 3 27:09

But in terms of the curriculum, what's so good about it is that my, in my opinion this is just my opinion, but I don't think that really you start training, training, training really until you're a black belt, like everything before. Black belt is prerequisite. You know white, blue, purple, brown, black. You're learning a specific set of skills, you know. I mean, uh, in other words, like, maybe around brown belt, before you get your black belt, you kind of really start to analyze what you like about jujitsu and what works for you. But up until that point you have no choice. You have to learn the whole curriculum. You know what I mean. You go um, you know first grade through, you know 12th grade, those are all the color belts. You know what I mean. You learn basic addition, you learn grammar, you learn all that kind of stuff. You have to learn everything. You can't say, oh, I don't think I'm not like, learn that. Teachers like no, you have to learn everything. When you get into college, obviously you start to take some basic requirements and stuff. But for the most part part you get to decide. Where do I want to specialize, where do I want to focus?

Speaker 3 28:20

You know some guys like you know kimura and some guys like omoplata. Guess what? It's the same, it's the same move. One guy has shorter, stubby your legs, likes the kimura. The other guy, like me, is six, three and a half and likes to use their legs to omoplata. The guy, and you know, be able to trade off for triangle or the guy on the the.

Speaker 3 28:36

You know somebody that's not you know that tall or lanky or whatever, might opt to go kimura. If they can finish the person, great. If the guy defends. And they have probably three different sweeps or a back take that they use. You know what I mean. So you get that, you get um. You'll get to the point where you're able to decide which ones you like, you know what moves that you prefer, which becomes your, your own interpretation of jiu-jitsu. That's why they have marcelo garcia jiu-jitsu, cobrina jiu-jitsu, you know lucas lepray jiu-jitsu. They teach, they teach their, they teach the alliance system, obviously, but you know they, they have their kind of take on. You know certain techniques or whatever that that that's really kind of specialized to them.

Speaker 2 29:19

You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 29:20

Yeah it's interpretation right Right right right and.

Speaker 2 29:22

I think that's one of the things that's so cool about Jiu Jitsu right, you can take the foundations right that are very similar and if not the same, and then you can interpret it to how it fits you. And because jujitsu is different for all of us I mean, I'm not tall, I'm not six three, I'm not going for a lot of triangles and homophilatas and things like that I mean 90% of what I try for submissions are chokes. You know, I think very few locks.

Speaker 3 29:51

And sometimes I mean generally speaking. A lot of the smaller guys are usually the best guys in the whole school. You know what I mean. Oh yeah, without a doubt.

Speaker 2 29:57

It's the same with our location. I mean, we've got a guy that's 150 pounds, soaking wet and he's shrinking.

Speaker 3 30:04

I bet you I know who you're talking about.

Speaker 2 30:06

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, marco, I'm talking about Marco. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I've trained, I've trained with him and you know, and we've exchanged ideas, so to speak. You know what I mean. And he, yeah, yeah, we always love it when you come to the, to the school, cause you give us, give us privates almost.

Speaker 3 30:29

I'm still using the. Did you call it the tombstone or the casket? The dead man? Oh, yeah, yeah, I call it the.

Speaker 2 30:34

Yeah, I call it. You know being in the casket. Yeah, I've been calling it a casket. The casket escape is what I call it.

Speaker 3 30:37

It's very very, very morbid sounding but for those who don't know what we're referencing like when you're underneath the mount, you're not, you're technically not supposed to be with your feet on the floor, head off the floor.

Speaker 3 30:50

That's a no-no right With your arms extended Some people put their hands like this to block the choke and your elbows are up so they can slide under your elbows. And now the leverage that you use for your hip or your, you know, for picking your hips up or bridging, doesn't affect the person's balance at all. So your head's supposed to be down, your elbows are supposed to be on the floor, your feet are supposed to be together, so it's almost like you're at a tension on the ground yeah, so essentially so it's.

Speaker 3 31:18

I always say it kind of looks like you're in a coffin, that's what I call it, not a castle coffin, yeah coffin.

Speaker 3 31:22

So yeah, so when you're in that position, your elbows are on the floor, the guy's isolated on your hips, your head's on the floor, they can't put their armor on your neck. Your legs's on the floor, they can't put their arm around your neck, your legs are on the floor, they can't put their feet underneath and cross their feet underneath your butt, so, essentially, like they're sitting on the floor, they're not mounted on anything, they're just sitting on the floor. And that gives you you're kind of in a position, a zero type position, to be able to anticipate. You know, if they put one hand on the collar, you know you're using your chin and you're trying to but all of those things by keeping your elbows on the floor, head on the floor, legs on the floor. First and foremost, you gotta be there, you know. You gotta know kind of where like zero is. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 32:03

Um and if, if you're just ran, it's the person mounts, will you kind of messed up earlier for them to mount? But if they do mount and you're fighting and trying to grab and block your neck and do everything other than you know defending the right way you know what I mean Then they have so many ways to to attack you from that position their body weights holding your, you down. You're thrashing around and you know burning energy and you get tired and then you make dumb, dumb decisions and end up getting armbarred or wrist locked or choked or or whatever. So you know, knowing where to be and kind of how to position yourself is huge, and that's that's what I'm saying. The benefit of learning it from, from Jacques A, who learned it, from his instructor, who learned it. From Elio Gracie, who was on the mat for years and years at a time. I mean I heard his wife would even bring him like meals on the mat yeah, you know?

Speaker 3 32:58

yeah, I heard that too because, because he's doing back-to-back-to-back privates and stuff, so you know, we're getting that kind of directly from from that avenue. You know, and what's funny is that Hodger Gracie, his dad, is Mauricio Gomez. He, he was Jacare's training partner. Yeah, you know. Look at the results with Hodger. Yeah, you know, henzo Gracie calls Jacare uncle, you know, because Jacare used to teach the kids class every now and then. He told me one time he was like man, jacare is a cool guy. After teaching the kids class on Saturday he would take us to the beach and buy us an ice cream cone, you know. So you know he was part of that whole family. So he, you know, or had a really close connection with the family, so he was able to really impart to us. You know, the. You know what we would call the. They don't say the meat and the potatoes, they say the rice and the beans, and Portuguese. Yeah, so he would teach us the rice and the beans. Jacare would teach the rice and the beans and he usually had, like, you know, he was like the Qui-Gon Jinn. There was always Obi-Wan Kenobi guy that taught alongside of him, that taught all the cool, really cool stuff. You know.

Speaker 3 34:02

So one of my best friends. His name is Felipe Neto. He has the Alliance School in Tallahassee and he started training with Jacare in Brazil, in Rio, and he was the first assistant instructor that was there. When I first started he was a brown belt. When I first came to visit during Thanksgiving, like I said, and then I went back to Texas packed up my stuff. When I came back he had been promoted in that time period. He was a black belt and so we became really, really good friends. He was actually one of the best men in my wedding. I married a Brazilian girl and you know we had a wedding here and we had a wedding in Brazil and he was one of my best men in my wedding. But there's always been Jacare, you know, and his plus one, you know, kind of the master and the Padawan, and at one point we were lucky enough we had Cobrinha, wow. And then at one point we had lucas lepri. Yeah, that's right, you were there.

Speaker 2 34:54

You were there when, like all those champions, were there before championships, right and then now.

Speaker 3 35:01

Now leo nugera is our, our resident, you know, chief and chief of instruction there and he's just phenomenal. Like that. Guy's got more accolades you were talking about earlier, about BJJ Heroes. Go look at some of the matches that he's had, look at some of the people that he's competed against. It's amazing, you know.

Speaker 2 35:21

I watched one of the—so I watched his match against Busecha and, oh gosh, it was—I was like— was like and again, this happened years ago. It was, to date, one of the like, most nail-biting matches I had seen, and you know um lael's.

Speaker 3 35:43

Lael's very much like a realist, you know what I mean. So if you ask him his opinion on jujitsu, he's gonna give it to you good, bad or indifferent. It's like it is what it is. For him, everything's very black or white. You know what I mean? Yeah, if you ask him about a technique that you saw, he'd be like, yeah, that might work against maybe a white belt or something. But man, try doing that against Boucher in the world championships and see if that works.

Speaker 2 36:07

You know he.

Speaker 3 36:10

He always has that kind of reference. Yeah, that would work, maybe against, you know, purple Belt, but go try it against Adolfo Vieira when you're, you know. So he's very, very he's, I wouldn't say simplistic, but he's very, you know he knows what works and he knows what maybe doesn't, or what's kind of fluff.

Speaker 3 36:31

You know what I mean. He's very, very kind of practical, or what's kind of fluff. You know what I mean. He's very, very kind of practical and he's kind of our, you know, unsung hero at alliance. You know what I mean. You've heard of marcelo garcia, you've heard of you know, lucas leper.

Speaker 3 36:42

You've heard of all those big name guys. Man, uh, leo was a crazy, you know, successful competitor, and I really respect him a lot. He's a great guy, yeah, great great teacher too. His matches are all over youtube and you know he was competitor and I really respect him a lot.

Speaker 2 36:54

He's a great guy.

Speaker 3 36:54

Yeah, great teacher too.

Speaker 2 36:55

His matches are all over YouTube and you know he was one of the first instructionals on BJJ Fanatics I actually bought in Rodrigo. He does that a lot with the approach, Like he's really like, he's honest, he doesn't sugarcoat it and in the progress that I've made, I would say probably over even the last seven or eight months, has been because I, you know, I finally started listening to him.

Speaker 2 37:17

And I think that younger in jujitsu you know it's people who haven't been in it that long. I think that's the hardest thing for us is to listen and execute, and I think it takes some time to realize, and a lot of pain and suffering, that hey, if I just do what he's saying, the way he's saying it, I'll be okay and it's. There's a lot of value in instructors that that teach like that.

Curriculum-Based Learning Approach

Speaker 3 37:41

Yeah, so the big. So you mentioned that you're. You know your audience is more geared towards, you know guys that started jujitsu to maybe blue belt, maybe mid blue belt, and they're kind of getting their feet underneath them and they look for tips and tricks and advice and that kind of stuff. And, man, I would say that's the number one thing that I could impart for somebody that wants to train jujitsu or is curious or what. I don't know why, but most people think that they should already know something about something until they know it. You know what I mean. Like you don't you know maybe something until they know it. You know what I mean. Like you don't. You know, maybe someone doesn't know anything about insurance. Or you know you start talking about claimants and insured and you know you don't know any of that stuff until you learn it. You know what I mean. So any preconceived notion probably is wrong. You know what I mean. So my biggest advice for for people that are new to something and it doesn't have to be jiu-jitsu, it could be anything, you know, I mean it's just literally, but it really applies to jiu-jitsu when you come into the academy you know you don't know anything, leave your ego at the door. Leave your preconceived notions at the door, leave everything at the door and pretty much just surrender over to what the instructor is saying. That's like again the old Miyagi thing. You know, teacher say student, do that's it.

Speaker 3 39:01

I remember I would ask a question to Felipe when we first started training my assistant, the assistant instructor, and I'd say, hey, felipe, do you do this, this? And he'd go what did Jacare said? What did Jacare said? And you're like, oh, he said, do that, do that. Then you know, and he'd walk away and at first I was like man, this guy's really, you know, really kind of aggressive or, you know, standoffish or whatever. But he, he kind of taught me a huge lesson. Just don't try to reinvent the wheel. The wheel's already been invented for you. You know what I mean. Like right, all of this history that's been going on since the 20s and 30s with the whole gracie family, and it's not just the gracie family, there's a ton of other influences as well. But you know, we put it in a in a.

Speaker 3 39:47

It's hard now that, especially since we have everything so systemized, all you have to do is come in and learn and try to retain as much as you can. You don't have to put a lot of thought into you know a lot of thought into it and just kind of leaving, like I said, your ego at the door. It doesn't matter if you're a CEO or if you're a janitor or if you're a cab driver. You know what I mean. Everyone's the same, everyone comes in. I think there's an old Chinese analogy where I tell my students I'm like if you had a glass and it was half filled with Coca-Cola, if I got pure water and put it in, it would just be all diluted Coca-Cola basically. So you literally at the first class at the door when you walk in, you got to dump out the Coca-Cola and let me put fresh water in and you can drink fresh water. You know what I mean?

Speaker 3 40:39

Like you have to completely, like you know, change your thinking and just and what I feel like I'm really good at, and what I feel like Rodrigo is really good at and a lot of instructors is not just you know what you're doing, but why you're doing it. I like to really kind of connect the dots a little bit more, which typically tends to mean that I talk more than a lot of other instructors, where they're like can we just, can we just do the move? Ok, we got it. You know, you've already demonstrated it. You know, by yourself, solo, against the imaginary partner, like three times, can we go ahead and try this now? But I just like to try to make it. I want it. I want to leave a lasting impression where they remember the move and why they're doing it. You know what I mean. Sometimes you get caught up on the 15 steps of the moves, but you don't know the why you're doing each thing.

Speaker 2 41:27

So usually you can recall it a little bit better if you know why you're doing each thing yeah, yeah, I actually I think I got a slew of questions that kind of popped to mind and even before, when I was kind of thinking through the conversation that I wanted us to have. And a lot of it has to do around you being an instructor and, but before I go into that, have you ever had students you know noticeably like challenge you on a technique and be like, no, this is wrong, that's not going to work and we need to do it this way, like actively push back on you. Oh yeah, oh yeah and yeah, I mean, how do you, how do you deal with stuff like that?

Speaker 3 42:11

Right, like I feel like I have the maturity now to not take it personally, you know to not take it personally.

Speaker 3 42:17

Something tells me there was a time where you didn't, oh yeah, um no, I was never. I don't want to be, I never want to make an enemy, ever. I'm. I'm always trying, you know, trying to be nice and have them have an enjoyable, you know, discussion or whatever experience, right, and so you know, if they come, you know, it's not, sometimes it's not what what you say, but how you say it. So sometimes people would say something in a certain way that would make me question whether they were just kind of questioning me or if they really were. You know, really were, you know, genuinely interested knowing this or that.

Speaker 3 42:49

But when someone says I don't know why you do that, you can't do that, I can't do that, I don't know, why that's a challenge right, yeah, right, right, right. And so you know, sometimes you, just you know my, you know if the person's closed-minded or closed off, or decided that they don't want to learn anymore. Like my role as an instructor, I can lead a horse to water, but I can't make him drink if they don't want to.

Speaker 3 43:14

If they don't want to drink, that's fine. I'm not going to force them to drink at this point. You know what I mean. If they're not going to drink, if they they've decided.

Speaker 3 43:22

I feel like at some sometimes, you know, people know enough about jujitsu where they kind of, you know, maybe close their mind off a little bit. You know, I always encourage people to have kind of a white belt mentality, like the curiosity of a white belt. That makes training fun. You know, at the end of class I always ask my students, like you know, three questions and I got this from some of my Taekwondo instructors. One of my instructors said man, they have to have a good workout. If they don't have a good workout, it wasn't a good class. They got to sweat and be losing weight and be working out and if they don't, then they're going to get bored and they're not going to come. And I see the validity, validity of that, but also and that would go back to you know, man, we're talking too much. We just got to train. We just got to roll. We just got to train. We just got to roll you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 44:09

Um, you know, knowing what you know. Now, if you just rolled and trained and rolled and trained and rolled and trained there's, you probably might get good at a couple of the moves that you know, but it's not really impacting you to grow Right. So I always say I always say I got this from one of my instructors Um, I'm going to say I'm out of order because the last one's the most impactful, but you have to learn one new thing in class each time you go. You have to learn something new each time you go to class and it doesn't have to be a whole new move with 15 steps. It could be something small, it could be a detail, it could be.

Speaker 3 44:45

You know something about jiu-jitsu you didn't know. Maybe a little jacare would tell these. You know crazy stories about back in the day. You know, and maybe I learned something new about that, or maybe it was a technique or maybe it was something I was doing wrong or whatever. So you have to learn one new thing.

Speaker 3 45:02

But the most important thing out of the three things is um, you have to have fun, because if you're not having fun, this is the wrong thing for you to be doing and I don't like calling it a sport. I really don't like call it. Everyone calls it a sport. I think it's. You know it's a martial art, it's a way of living your life, it's a methodology. You could apply it to a lot of different things. But you know, if you're not having fun, man, you're going to get like Matt burn and ringworm every now and then. Or you know, twist, twist, the finger, hurt neck. You know cricking your neck. You know knee gets jacked up, shoulder gets jacked up. You know, if you're not having fun, well, I don't understand what. What the point is, you know.

Speaker 3 45:45

So my caveat is always always ask people, you know, did you learn something new? Did you have fun, even though having fun is the most important thing Did you have fun? Did you learn something new? And, as a result of those things, are you sweating? Did you get a good workout? You know what I mean. If everyone's trying their best, they're doing everything they can in the warm-up, they're doing the techniques correctly, they're rolling, they're training, they're going to be sweating, they're going gonna be moving around. You know what I mean. That's kind of a like a byproduct of it. You know what I mean. Right, if you're doing jujitsu and having fun and learning new stuff and can defend yourself and you just drop 30 pounds as a result of you training consistently. That's just the icing on the cake. You know what I mean, right? So I always, I always ask people those three things and if, if they all say yes, then in my opinion it was a good class.

Speaker 2 47:27

Yeah, yeah, it's like in the Army we used to do that. It's like kind of like a training check, right. We used to have these things called after action reviews where, like after the training, we all gather around and you know the sergeant or platoon leader or what have you would ask you know a series of questions, and it's just a check on knowledge, right, and I think it would help to. As an instructor, you know any feedback you got from that and, like, well, you could do different. As we continue to talk, you know about your experience as an instructor and you have this. You know amazing background and all these years of experience. You know amazing background and all these years of experience. How has the past influenced your teaching philosophy and approach? Right, training under Jacare and coming up with all these amazing people in your classes and all the different instructors you were exposed to. How has the past influenced you as an instructor in your philosophy? So you know.

Speaker 3 48:30

That's a big question. No, no, no, no. It's a good question. It's a really, really good question.

Speaker 3 48:34

Obviously, as a person in general, you want to grow and learn and get better and be a better person and you have to learn. You know where you have strengths and where you have weaknesses. You know I have a tendency to you know kind of talk a lot. I got to keep myself in check so I'm not like it's not a dialogue, it's more of a conversation. And and sometimes you know, if someone says something I can't, you know I'm I'm kind of emotional.

Speaker 3 49:00

When I teach, I'm putting everything I have into it. I'm, you know I, I do this for the. It's a hobby for me. I have my full-time job. You know what I mean. I'm not there to you know, I'm just there to to be of service if I can.

Speaker 3 49:12

And you know, I think I think a lot about what I'm going to teach. Before I come in, I put this whole action plan together and stuff. But you know I've, I've certainly fallen victim of letting you know. Maybe something that someone said or whatever kind of you know put me in a little bit of a tailspin and and you know what I mean, I guess the maturity aspect of you know of of how to conduct myself, how to, how to get the most out of what you're doing. You know you're, you're constantly trying to. You know, teach and and make the. You know how can I help this person learn better? You know what I mean. My Taekwondo instructors are really good about. One of my instructors says the students are either visual, auditory, kinesthetic.

Speaker 3 50:02

And I've always kind of tried to change up my teaching to kind of identify well, is this guy hearing what I'm saying and that's making an impact, or does he have to see me do it or do I need to literally grab his hand and put it in each spot? And I've learned over the years. I've got a chance to train with, like I said, a bunch of really high level guys. And you know, all those guys that I've trained with are kind of like superheroes. You knoware felipe cobria, lucas we've had, you know, fabio gurgel come in for seminars many, many times. Leo viera, who's the founder of check matt he's come. Marcelo garcia's come. We've had seminars with just like the most amazing guys ever. And I'm always trying. You know, horry and gracie came once.

Speaker 3 50:46

And you know, not just from a from, I always watch the techniques, obviously, and I'm a super geek about that kind of stuff, about the details and how they show it and whatever. But I'm always like listening to how they explain things and what they focus on and how they prioritize, how they teach. And you know, fabio like will tell a story. You know the warm-up move will be the move we use for the technique. You know what I mean. Yeah, and then that move will be a pass, for example, and then we'll now they're gonna try to do this to keep me from doing this, then I do this, then what happens is so the warm-up becomes the first move, becomes the next move, because the next move circles back to the concept that he was doing for the whole seminar. Right, and you feel like you like learned a little story. You know what I mean, like you can remember that. You know what I mean. What was the first thing we did? We did the warm-up and then remember the warm-up was the first move, and then you know what I mean. They kind of put it together in a way that makes you understand um, I try to, you know, go from the first class to the end of class with a kind of a, a concept that we're focusing on or something that you know that I want them to kind of take away. Um, you know, and I'm very, very open to any kind of feedback like that, yeah, so you just have to be, keep yourself flexible, and you know it's all about. You know, if you're an instructor and that's your job, it's all about the student.

Speaker 3 52:25

Another, another thing I don't like. You know, when people, if you have an instructor that's teaching, if he's designated to teach that class, he shouldn't be over there rolling with all the other students. You know what I mean. Yeah, do I want to teach these people or do I want to show them how good I am or do I want to selfishly get a workout and sweat? You know, right, somebody came up and goes hey, dj, do you want to train? I said, oh man, I'm sorry, I'm, I'm teaching. I just, you know, I want to stand back and watch everybody and coach and teach. And and you know, I've seen other instructors usually kind of early on, when they first start teaching, you know they'll be teaching and then all of a sudden, there's a rotation going doing like specific training or something, and they put themselves in the rotation and I'm like how.

Speaker 3 53:01

How can you expect, though, what happens? One there's maybe injuries can happen. People are bumping into each other. How do you know that that guy got that other guy in the arm bar and he's not going to rip his arm off? You're over there training. My worst fear is Jacare calls and says how did that guy's arm get broke while you were teaching class? What were you doing? And I talked to a lot of other instructors about that. Don't be so focused on these two training. Put yourself in a corner. Put yourself in the corner where you can see everybody. Jacare said that a lot. Don't be over here giving too much detail with these two pair. Do it, but do it in a way where you're observing everybody else, because you're responsible for everybody here.

Speaker 2 53:45

Yeah, I think that's great that you brought that up, but do it in a way where you're observing everybody else, because you're responsible for everybody here, you know.

Speaker 2 53:51

Yeah, I think that's great that you brought that up, because I know Rodrigo does that really well.

Speaker 2 53:53

There's been several times where he's yelled out or stopped something before it went really, really bad.

Speaker 2 53:58

There were a couple times where I was, you know, on the sideline watching and stuff, and I didn't even see it, but he saw it Right, right line watching and stuff, and I didn't even see it, but he saw it right and right like he.

Speaker 2 54:09

There was one time I was training it was a morning class and my training partner wrapped up my leg and it didn't even feel like it was wrapped up, but if he would have went down it would have snapped it in like three places or two places and Rodrigo stopped and yelled out and like we froze because I mean, when that big guy starts yelling, like you're gonna stop, and I don't even know if my training partner knew what he was doing. And you know, I I think that's a great point and I hope the instructors out there that may listen to this episode kind of take that if that's something that they're doing and I get it, they want to train and stuff, but I think it is important for safety, especially if you're you're an academy like ours at roswell, where it's high blue belt, high white belt, like it's 80.

Speaker 3 54:50

I mean, you've seen, yeah, the ratio there there's always, there's always an opportunity for us to train, you know. But what? What benefit is it for a black belt or a brown belt or whoever to train with, you know, white and blue belts, doing the specific training, where, if you win, you stay. If you, I hate to say, lose, if you learn something, if you didn't win, you're the back of the line you know what?

Speaker 3 55:15

I mean, and there's, you know that I don't see what the point of that is. But, um, the other thing is yeah, I, we had this crazy, you know white belt ended up getting their blue belt and he's in there in the intermediate class and he's trying to heel, hook people. Imagine you're a professional, you know what I mean. Like you're not 18 years old, you're, you know, older. You know not saying older guy, but a mature. You know what I'm saying. Yeah, but a mature. You know what I'm?

Speaker 3 55:45

saying yeah, yeah, yeah. And this guy tries to heel hook you and you have no idea what even a, you don't even really maybe know what a heel hook is.

Speaker 1 55:53

You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 55:53

At a white or blue belt and this guy is trying to take your leg home and with a heel, hook your ankle. Is not what pops. It's not your knee does your knee does you know what I mean? Jobs your knee. Does your knee does you know what I mean? So all of a sudden realize your knees jack. You can't train. Gotta have doctor's appointments you're taking time off your work.

Speaker 2 56:13

If you have a manual labor job, I mean you and I we're recruiters. We need the internet and phone, but some people are out outside working construction. I mean they can't recruit if I'm in doctor's appointments and yeah, yeah, you know and some, some people outside of work like police officers, and we have a lot of police officers that train like their physical body is required for their work.

Speaker 3 56:35

you know, that's another good good, a good a sign of a good instructor that they know how to cater to In the intermediate class you might have. You know, I taught the intermediate class the other day, so we have the fundamentals class. So for those that don't know, our fundamentals program is is the first you start, and then your first 30 classes. You get a stripe on your white belt belt and then at 60 classes you get the second stripe. You take a little kind of an abbreviated type kind of test slash quiz to make sure that you retained all that information before you can go into the intermediate class. The intermediate class is between fundamentals and advanced. So again another 30 stripes, you're at 90, you get third stripe. You know 30, more 120, you get the fourth and then for the next 30 classes you're preparing for your blue belt test, right, going, kind of going back over all that stuff that you learned.

Speaker 3 57:30

But in terms of the amount of techniques you learn and fundamentals you might have like a class with five techniques. You know, intermediate is only like maybe three techniques, but what we're doing is we're kind of teaching the person how to roll. You know what I mean. It's like a big jigsaw puzzle, like a thousand piece jigsaw puzzle set. So one, one class you're working on, you know uh, bottom like a butterfly guard. Another one you're working uh, side control. Another one you're working more advanced kind of mount, you know attacks. Another one you're working more advanced kind of mount, you know attacks. Another one you're working defense you know.

The Cultural Legacy of Alliance

Speaker 3 58:03

So it's little different. You know areas of rolling and kind of broken apart, and then you only learn those three moves. It's usually like the primary move and if that doesn't, you know something happens. Where that doesn't work, we have this one or the person reacts this way, then we have this move and just three. You know the main move and two kind of variations and then we, we, uh, we train that, you know, against I wouldn't say a resisting opponent, but it's not drilling and it's not rolling, it's kind of what we call specific training if you, you know, pass the guard, you know you stay.

Speaker 3 58:37

If you, you know, if the person sweeps you from the bottom, they, you know, stay. So it depends on there's a million different ways to train that, that kind of thing. But in certain classes you have somebody that just came from fundamentals. You know a younger guy, you know 25,. Another person, you know 52. 52,. Another person that was a kid, that was in the kids class. That's like a yellow slash, black. You know a yellow belt with a black slash through the middle. You know what I mean. Yeah, they're in the class, they're 15, 14, you know. So you say, and you have a lady, you know a couple of ladies in there, one's a blue, one's a white, you know, one knows more than the other. You have one person's 280 pounds. You have one person that's 115 pounds. So, with all those people in there, if you don't know how to, like, you know, teach them to their, you know, teaching the techniques in a way that makes sense to everybody, then you know, pairing them to train is a totally different thing.

Speaker 3 59:37

You don't want to put the 14- 14 year old 115 pound guy with the 400 pound or 300 pound guy, you know, or whatever.

Speaker 2 59:44

You're meeting people where they're at Right. I mean, that's, that's what you're doing.

Speaker 3 59:48

That's a big, a big proponent of being a good instructor is kind of knowing how to you know how to structure the class in a way that that everyone gets something out of it without you know risking people getting hurt. And imagine if I'm not paying attention and accidentally the you know lady walks over with a a huge guy and and he slips, and you know what I mean. Like I gotta be right there on top of it and I probably wouldn't let that situation happen in the first place. You know, I would try to. You know, pair them up a little bit more according to their, you know, size and level and things like that, you know.

Speaker 2 1:00:22

Yeah, there's a lot of things, I'm sure, and tools. As an instructor you have to kind of mitigate, you know, not having people start standing, things like that. I think those are good practices. I have a couple more questions and then I'm going to move in. Before we close out, there's a couple kind of fun questions I want to ask. Just, I think they're just fun questions to talk about. And so has there ever, dj, been a time in your journey in all of these years that you felt like you kind of lost your passion?

Speaker 3 1:00:55

and your love for jujitsu. I'm going to be completely honest no, no.

Speaker 2 1:00:59

And that's the answer I usually get.

Speaker 3 1:01:02

There were times. There were times where it was difficult to train because, you know, I worked for a company that had locations around the city and at one point, you know, jacare was down in the Prado, which is like Sandy Springs. You know 285 Roswell road and I was way up in this Northern suburb called Duluth, which was like way up 85.

Speaker 3 1:01:25

So by the time I mean even just to drive from one spot to the other probably be 30 minutes, but I mean traffic after you get off work. And trying to get down there to train it was like impossible and I was up there for like a year.

Speaker 3 1:01:38

So it takes most people around 10 years to get their black belt. It took me like right at maybe 11 started. I might have been 10. But you know, when I first started training, it was, I mean, as much as I would go anytime the school was open. I would go twice a day, every day, and I was waiting. You know, I just moved to Atlanta, didn't know what I was going to do for a living was waiting tables or you know, steak and seafood restaurants and I'd go train. You know, if I didn't have a lunch shift or whatever, I'd be there at noon, I'd be there at night, I'd be there both. So I ended up getting my blue belt in like six months, where it normally takes people about a year, year and a half, you know, because I was there like all the time. Um, and then I was a blue belt for a long time. I was a purple belt for a long time. It was a Brown belt for probably two or three years and then it got my black.

Speaker 3 1:02:28

But you know, sometimes things pop up where you know your, your job, life gets in the way. Something happens, you know, and, and, but it was so funny, as people always say, they'll see me and about. And all of a sudden it's like hey, professor, I hurt my elbow and I haven't been going to class, but I promise I was thinking about going back next month and I'm like hey, man, it's good to see you. Like you don't have to explain, you know you have me at hello man. I was hey, what's up, buddy, good to see you. Like I hope know you had me at hello man. I was hey, what's up, buddy, good to see you.

Speaker 3 1:03:02

Like I hope you come back if you do, great, we're always there, you know like, but they feel like they owe me like an explanation or something. I'm like man, that's. That's. I completely understand, you know. But as long as I mean, if you really enjoy doing jujitsu, you know, find the time to come back, and it doesn't.

Speaker 3 1:03:17

Another thing is is that with a program like the fundamentals in the intermediate class, you don't have to jump back into the deep end, wherever you were when you left. You know what I mean. You can go back into a fundamentals class. You can go back into an intermediate class, you know, and and kind of work your way back into coming. Don't come five times a week when you come back. Come back, you know. Come back maybe once a week, twice a week, you know what I mean, and kind of build yourself back up. Come back maybe once a week, twice a week, you know what I mean, and kind of build yourself back up. I think the expectation when you leave and you come back is you've got to finish, you've got to come back exactly where you left off, and that's not realistic a lot of the times. You know what I mean.

Speaker 2 1:03:51

Yeah, yeah, when did you? How do I want to say this? What made you want to become an instructor? Like, how did you make that shift? Was there a moment, was there a situation that happened, or did you know that? You know once I get my black? Well, I know you were. I think you said you were teaching when you were purple and brown, but like to full-time instruct what? What was that moment like in transition?

Speaker 3 1:04:14

so you know that real. That came when I was very young. You know what I mean, like when I I walked into the Tong Sudo school when I'm eight years old and the main instructor is testing, I just happened to go in with my mom or passing a building or something, and they eventually moved the program over to like the boys club or something like that, but they were in their own, like little building, and the main instructor was testing for his second degree, black belt or something like that. He was breaking boards and sweating, and you know, and yes, sir, and bowing, and even he had an instructor that was, you know, above him, that was there behind a table or something. He must be man. You think this guy's good, he must be amazing, you know.

Speaker 3 1:04:54

And then I started taking Taekwondo. My instructors were like, you know, my heroes, the guys I looked up to, the guys I wanted to be like. And so, you know, jacare was amazing, you know, wealth of knowledge. And you know I I've always looked up to my teachers and I've always wanted to be like them. I always wanted to emulate them. You know, I always wanted to learn more about, you know, whatever that thing is. You know, if you're learning archery, you know you want to be as good as the person that's teaching you If you're learning. You know pool, you know playing, playing billiards or pool. You want to be as good as the guy that showed you. You know what I mean. So, um, or at least that's how my personality is, and so I just um, you know, I've always kind of and I I really really, really like, I mean I've learned a lot of skills from my, from my instructors, and I've learned how to kind of impart information over to other people and I just really enjoy it.

Speaker 3 1:05:47

You know, my favorite, my favorite moment is so fabio gurgel said you know, you don't, you don't do the moves on them. You know, like, when you, when they first start, when they first come in, you you make them do the moves on you. You know what I mean. So it's kind of like backwards and you know they put themselves in base. We kind of genteely, kind of jump on their back a little bit, put my arm around their neck and I make them put the hands here and here, and then I tell them to straighten their legs and put their head between their legs and all of a sudden I go flipping over their head and they go. They just realized they threw a full man like over their body, using their body structure and the technique and everything. And it's like that oh my god, what did I do? And are you okay? And did I do? Did I do that? Like? You know what I mean. That, like that, like that, that that's what I love. You know what I mean when?

Speaker 3 1:06:45

people are just what do you call it like? Uh, um, they're like, they're like civilians. You know what I mean. They're like civilians, they have not a clue. And then you, you show them something and actually they do it on you, and then they're just like, oh my god, like the possibilities, just you know totally opened up, yeah, yeah where they can see that, not even just with jujitsu, with a lot of different things.

Speaker 2 1:07:12

You know what I mean yeah, yeah, I um I think that's cool to hear, kind of how you so it's kind of like being an instructor's kind of always been ingrained in you. So yeah, I'll show you a move.

Speaker 3 1:07:23

I remember I showed you a move one time and you go, you said you go, wait, wait, wait, do that one more time. Yeah, wait, wait, wait, wait, do that one more time. And then you're like this is so good, I like you got to show me so I can make sure I remember it the right way.

Speaker 2 1:07:37

You know, I love that, that's I know we spent about probably 30 minutes, maybe longer, together that day and I'm still using the stuff now, right, and it's just, you know, for us new guys or newer guys or younger guys in the jujitsu realm, it's you know that kind of instruction is phenomenal. All right, so I've got three questions. I know we're over the hour, I knew we'd have a good conversation, but just three more questions here. These are kind of rapid fire, kind of fun questions. Do you prefer ghee or no? Ghee, ghee, ghee, yeah.

Speaker 1 1:08:12

Old school.

Speaker 2 1:08:14

I'm a ghee guy too. I'm an older guy.

Speaker 3 1:08:18

I have to slow people down. I like both, but if I had to choose one or the other, I, you know, started with the ghee. I just have an affinity for the ghee. I love the ghee.

Speaker 2 1:08:25

Yeah, yeah, all right. So here this is caffeinated jujitsu. I'm going to make the assumption you like caffeinated beverages, coffees what's your go-to order?

Teaching Philosophy and Student Development

Speaker 3 1:08:35

Okay, this is a little complicated, but there's Cuban coffee and they have something called. They have something called a cordadito, which is like a little small I think they call them portados, which is like equal amount of espresso and steamed milk, and then they put a little sugar in it and so there's a Cuban place down the street. I'll get two of those in a large cup. So they say. To make it easy, just say you want a cafe con leche with the extra shot.

Speaker 3 1:09:00

And I get that and it's perfect. Yeah, Really really good that sounds good.

Speaker 2 1:09:04

I may have to try that. Maybe you'll have to send me a link to get some of that Cuban coffee.

Speaker 3 1:09:08

Absolutely.

Speaker 2 1:09:11

I've had so many different types. It's comical now, All right. So this question. I like this question. I actually have a different question for you, but I'm going to ask this one too. Who would you most like to do a role with? It could be somebody from the past, the present. Who would you like to train a five-minute round with more than anybody. It could be back in their prime. It could be Jacare back in his prime.

Speaker 3 1:09:40

It could be anyone.

Speaker 2 1:09:41

I've already rolled with Jacare? Yeah, I figured so.

Speaker 3 1:09:43

He doesn't. I remember at one point he said nah, I don't know if I want to roll with DJ anymore. You're too big and you're trying to do those like cartwheel passes and stuff. I'm scared you're going to land on me. Yeah, I would say holds, Gracie, without a doubt, you literally had me there for a second. I'm like Hickson Elio. You know one of the guys on my mountain, choose anybody.

Speaker 3 1:10:05

Yeah, If it could be anybody, it would be holes, because I've just heard so many stories. He's such a like a mythic legend in our, in our sport and and they need to, you know right need to, you know right? Yeah, oh god, he's, he's just amazing and he was way you know way ahead of his time. And and yeah, I, just I, that would be awesome, that would be really cool all right, so favorite, favorite jacare story I wouldn't say it's so much of a story, more of like just kind of an overall thing about jacare.

Speaker 3 1:10:37

The thing that I miss the most about, you know, being around him all the time is that you know, when I first started at the first school with the Prado, you know we had a huge um. The school looked like a you know two-story, vaulted, you know kind of um, like a, like an alpine ski resort or like a chalet or something. It's like a two-story, vaulted, wood plank beautiful school and the bathrooms were super nice, like a you know like a country club bathroom with lockers and stuff, and we would sit back there in the locker room and just he would tell stories one after the other, um, and he eventually told me you know, man, when I go home and don't, what do you? It's not like real, you know I'm I look down my street and it's totally black. There's no one around. You know what I mean.

Speaker 3 1:11:21

In Rio it's like it never sleeps. We always have friends hanging out. You go on the street and hang out and tell stories and stuff, and so that was his kind of time to bond with us. You know the guys that stuck around to listen. We just learned so much and heard so many stories, but Jacare would always go back to an expression. And a guy that I started training with his name is mark van skyver. He was published a book that, with jacare, and we would always talk about. You know, man, we need to.

Speaker 3 1:11:47

We need to come up with a book called the proverbs of the alligator, because jacare means alligator in portuguese yeah and um, because he would always say and you knew it was coming, because he would say man, like we say in brazil, and he would say the you know saying, or whatever. And he had a million of them, he had all of them, some made sense, some of them didn't. You know what I mean. But he would say my favorite one is he goes, man.

Speaker 3 1:12:16

This guy came into the school, said there was another jiu-jitsu guy teaching on the other side of town and the guy's awesome and he's really good and you know, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said, man, really, who's this guy? And he says his name is like Mike Smith. He goes, mike Smith, man. That guy was like a blue belt here under me, you know, and then disappear and now I guess he's teaching on the other side of town and somehow he got his black belt or whatever. He goes like with sam brazil in the land of the blind, the man who's got one eye.

Speaker 3 1:12:49

He's like the king man, you know and he would have just like a ton of like little little sayings like that. You know, man, this guy comes in, tries to train hard. He doesn't like learn too much, he's kind of like little little sayings like that. You know, man, this guy comes in, tries to train hard. He doesn't like learn too much. He's kind of like doesn't want to learn, just wants to fight and stuff like in brazil, like we say in brazil, this guy he's like tripping in the mayonnaise, you know, like he's, he's not going anywhere he's just tripping in the mayonnaise, you know, but he would have just a million different different little sayings like that while he's telling stories.

Speaker 3 1:13:22

You know what I mean and um, so that's what I miss the most is him, you know, just being around him enough to, you know, hear some of his stories and he'd have really great life lessons that he would teach us. And you know, and that's what I, you know, that's what I love about jock ray the most is just he's. He's just know, such a great guy and has so much knowledge and has all these great stories from back in the day, you know.

Speaker 2 1:13:46

Yeah, that's what I hear a lot when he comes out to visit and you know he's come to Roswell and you know those that were able to go and see him they said that was their favorite part of the whole visit, when he just sit there for like an hour after you know class and just talked and so that's, that's awesome. Well, you know, professor Farmer, we're, you know, coming to the end here. What I'd love to hear ask you kind of final question If there's any bit of advice you could give really two subsets of people. First set of advice is to those that have just started, kind of in that first few years journey of jiu-jitsu, and then those who are sitting at home who may be thinking about starting jiu-jitsu. Right, what, what bit of golden advice would you give for those two people?

Speaker 3 1:14:33

just, I mean pretty much what I kind of touched on earlier. Like you know, it's all about the journey. Know you have to start at some point. I mean you have to if you want to do jujitsu or if you want to continue to do jujitsu. You got to identify. You know what you like about it, what you're trying to get out of it. You know if you're going in to learn some good self-defense, you know techniques that'll, that'll potentially save your life in a situation. Or if you, you know, want to build more confidence, or if you want to, you know, meet some, you know, really cool people. If you want to, you know you just got to have to understand what you're, what you're doing it for and, like I said, a black belt, so white belt, to never quit. You just have to be consistent.

Speaker 3 1:15:18

Some people think consistency means training five days a week. You know I'm 49. You know I started when I was in my early 20s. You know I can't. I can't train two or three times a day like I used to. Back in the day I train. You know, tuesday I'm off.

Instructor Responsibility and Safety

Speaker 3 1:15:35

Wednesday with my family. Thursday, I train. Friday take the wife out for a nice dinner. Saturday hang out with the family. I might go to the school, out for a nice dinner Saturday, hang out with the family. I might go to the school every now and then on Saturday and train, you know. You know Sunday, rest up, monday I'm back at work and then kind of rinse and repeat. So if I can get in three days a week, that's, that's consistency. Yeah, if you go in one once a week and and it's consistent, that's great.

Speaker 3 1:16:00

The person who's going in twice a week is probably going to, you know, kind of usually going to kind of progress a little bit quicker. You know the people who go more are going to progress quicker because they're obviously learning more content, right, but yes, but you know, in the, in the, in the beginning, you know two times a week is like perfect, you know, yeah, and just being consistent. You know, if you go Tuesday and Thursday and something comes up where you can't make Thursday, try to go Saturday, you know, try to do Monday and Wednesday, tuesday, thursday, Wednesday, saturday, you know, just try to get at least two, two in a week. And it doesn't matter if you train five times a week, you know, for a month, uh, for a couple of, you know for a week and then we don't see you for two months and then you come back. You know what I mean it.

Speaker 3 1:16:44

You know it's it's the person that's in for the kind of the long haul that usually ends up. You know getting the most out of it. So another thing is just checking your ego at the door. Just dump your cup out whenever you're walking into school. And know, train and learn as much as you can and and try to be open-minded and always have that sense of curiosity and that's that's the best way to learn. You know they always say a parachute works best when it's open, just like your mind. You know that's it as soon as you think you figured out things and you usually kind of plateau and and end up usually kind of quitting because it's not fun, you're not learning anything new, so you know just having that mentality.

Speaker 2 1:17:25

I like that reference. Parachute works best when it's open.

Speaker 1 1:17:29

I like that.

Speaker 2 1:17:32

How can?

Speaker 3 1:17:33

people get in touch with you, dj, I'm at the main Alliance school Alliance headquarters in Atlanta. We opened our new location. It's just inside 285 on Roswell Road. I think. All the addresses are updated and everything online. So look at you know Facebook, instagram and I teach there. You know, on Tuesdays and Thursdays I do the fundamentals and intermediate class and then, you know, train in my class afterwards and then, like I said, I'm usually there on you know, probably every other Saturday or so, so anybody can can find me there. I'm on Instagram, I'm on Facebook. It's pretty easy to find me, but if anyone has any questions, I'm always open and available to answer any questions and I'm here to truly serve you know, any way I can.

Speaker 2 1:18:16

Yeah, outstanding, and we will have all Professor Pharma's links and how to reach out to him in the show notes. Professor Farma, thank you so much. This conversation is exactly what I hoped it would be. I hope you've enjoyed your time here on the podcast in the cafe.

Speaker 3 1:18:33

Had a bunch of fun. Thanks so much for inviting me. I really enjoyed it.

Speaker 2 1:18:37

Yeah, absolutely. And don't forget to subscribe. Yeah, absolutely, and don't forget to subscribe. And remember that every day on the mat is progress. And train smart, roll safe and keep your passion brewing strong. See you next time.

Speaker 3 1:18:51

Thanks guys.

Speaker 1 1:18:57

And that's the final tap on today's episode of Caffeinated Jiu-Jitsu. A big thanks to all of our listeners, especially today's insightful guest, for sharing their BJJ knowledge and tales. If you felt that adrenaline rush and are hungry for more, hit, subscribe, drop a review and spread the Jiu-Jitsu buzz. For show notes and to contact the host, reach out to the email provided in the podcast description and to join our grappling community, head over to Instagram. Get those geese, crisp your coffee strong and always be prepared for the next roll Aus.