Episode #15 - Lessons From the Masters: Leo Nogueira

In this episode of Lessons from the Masters I have the distinct honor of speaking with Leo Nogueira. Leo Nogueira is not only the head professor at Alliance Headquarters in Dunwoody, GA, he is a multi-champion and BJJ Legend and Icon. 

Get ready to learn how Jiu-Jitsu has evolved from a strength-dominated sport to one that celebrates technique, especially for those not blessed with size and power. Leo shares wisdom from his mentors, Fabio Gurgel, and Master Romero “Jacare” Cavalcanti, and talks about pivotal moments in his career, like his first major black belt victory and competing with a severe knee injury. The conversation shines a light on the importance of adaptability and resilience, transforming setbacks into comebacks.
 
 But this episode is not just about competition and championships. Leo opens up about his teaching philosophy and the immense satisfaction he finds in coaching. He talks about the significance of mental strength, the strategic nuances of fighting, and the joy of fostering the next generation of Jiu-Jitsu champions. If you have ever been curious about the rich, community-oriented culture of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, or how to apply its principles both on and off the mats, this episode is a treasure trove of insights. Join us for an unforgettable conversation with one of Jiu-Jitsu's true legends.

Connect with Leo Nogueira: Instagram @leo_nogueirabjj.

Interested in Training with Leo Nogueira: 

CONTACT US - Alliance Jiu-Jitsu Atlanta (alliancebjj.com)

Check Out Leo's Instructional

The São Paulo Passing System by Leonardo Nogueira – BJJ Fanatics

Half Guard Encyclopedia by Leonardo Nogueira – BJJ Fanatics

Proud Affiliate of GenXRefined BJJ Gear
Caffeinated_Jiujitsu/GR

Chapters

• 0:01 Lessons From BJJ Champions
• 11:38 The Power of Jiu-Jitsu Technique
• 23:11 Overcoming Adversity in Jiu-Jitsu
• 32:29 Adapting Jiu-Jitsu to Personal Style
• 38:40 Building a Strong Jiu-Jitsu Mindset
• 49:41 Fostering Community and Teaching Jiu-Jitsu
• 1:01:29 Rolling With Jiu-Jitsu Champions
• 1:06:34 Caffeinated Jiu-Jitsu Podcast Launch

Transcript

Intro/Outro: 0:01

Welcome to Caffeinated Jiu-Jitsu the blend of white belt enthusiasm, black belt wisdom and a dash of caffeine for that extra kick. Dive deep into the world of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu as we explore the journey, techniques, challenges and the sheer joy of the sport from a white belt's perspective. From intriguing interviews with renowned coaches and professors to playful fun episodes that'll have you chuckling mid-roll. We've got it all brewed and ready. Now stepping onto the mats and into your ears, here's your host, joe Motes welcome everyone to another episode of caffeinated jujitsu.

Joe: 0:59

Everyone, I am super stoked for today's episode. I told many of the listeners several months ago that we were going to be launching a series called Lessons from the Master, or Lessons from the Masters, and we had my professor on, rodrigo Maciel, who was our first black belt. That gave us some good insights. But today is extremely special because sitting no more than a foot and a half, maybe two feet, in front of me is Professor World Champion, one of my BJJ heroes, leo Nogueira. Professor Nogueira, welcome.

Leo: 1:42

Hello everyone. Thank you guys for the invitation. I feel honored to be here and I hope you guys, I hope to share good advice to everyone.

Joe: 1:52

Yeah, I'm so, so excited. I you know the term fanboy. I don't know if you've ever heard that, but that's definitely what I'm sitting here doing now. I'm sitting here doing now, for those of you who may uh not know, uh professor nagara. In his uh jujitsu background, he is a multi-world champion. He is ibjjf master world champion, uh way world champion, pans champion, brazilian nationals champion and europe Open champion, and I'm sure I missed some other championships in there.

Joe: 2:28

You know he's a multi-time champion. He is a black belt under the legendary Fabio Grochel. Did I say that correctly? Grochel Grochel, okay, okay. Who is also one of the founders of Alliance as well. Right, and just listen, he's a celebrity in the jiu-jitsu community. I'm so excited that he's here today. And also I want to call out, before we get into it, the location we're at today. We're where it all started here in Atlanta, Georgia. Right, Was this Dunwoody? We're in Dunwoody. All right, so we're in Dunwoody at Alliance headquarters. And this is where it all kicked off in 93, right, Was it 1993?

Leo: 3:11

Yeah, more or less.

Joe: 3:13

Yeah, and it's an absolute privilege to be here at the headquarters. This isn't just a gym, it's really a cornerstone in jiu-jitsu culture globally gym it's really a cornerstone in jujitsu culture globally. Alliance has gyms and locations not just throughout the US but throughout the world, and I'm excited to be part of the family and, again, excited for the conversation today. So let's jump into it. All right, let's talk about, uh, let's start uh, professor nagara, about uh, kind of on your early days, if you can kind of take us back to when you, when you first started practicing jujitsu, you, you were growing up and you lived in sao paulo sao paulo a state but a small city guarujá.

Joe: 4:02

Oh, okay yeah, I'm a small town guy myself. So what initially drew you to jiu-jitsu and how did you begin your training? How did you come to it? We all fall into this thing, right?

Leo: 4:15

Yeah, yeah. So it started early. I've always been a sport guy. I grew up doing sport, swimming. I started karate before jiu-jitsu and the main reason that I started jiu-jitsu was for fighting the street. So back in the days we didn't start jiu-jitsu for being a champion or get a medal.

Leo: 4:37

It was for self-defense. Especially being in Brazil Late 90s was no bullying, not such a thing. So you had to know how to defend yourself, and I remember getting in a fight with an older guy I was 13, 14 years old, a guy that was 25 years old.

Joe: 5:01

Oh, wow.

Leo: 5:01

Beat me badly and I knew some karate right, but the karate didn't work. Oh man, well, I end up getting beat right and one of my friends neighbor. He told me Leo, this karate thing didn't work. You need technique. That don't require power and all that, you need to learn the leverage. And he gave me a ride to a jiu-jitsu school to introduce me to jiu-jitsu and then he was making fun the whole way driving. He's like Leo, you need to learn jiu-jitsu, man, this karate don't work right. Well, it's a big difference in age. You're beating a teenager, you know. But yeah, I end up training Jiu Jitsu by his influence and also my brother. My brother started training Jiu Jitsu before me, but I didn't give too much attention. You know, my brother was always doing his stuff, I was doing my stuff. He's been five years older than me, so it's a different, uh group of yeah people right.

Leo: 6:09

But then I started training jiu-jitsu. Uh, and first week was so hard because back in my time was not a teenager class or kids class, was adult class. And I remember stepping on the mat the instructor showed me, rear naked, choke from the back, how to open close guard. He looked at me. He said man, good luck, I hope you don't get hurt.

Joe: 6:38

That was my first week in BJJ oh wow, that's a lot different than mine.

Leo: 6:43

Well, in the first week I end up with a broken nose. But I didn't quit and I remember, like I remember I'm putting pressure on my dad Back then, the geese was expensive To buy me a gi like I didn't even try, I was like no, I need this for my life, I can't walk afraid anymore, you know. And then broken nose, but I keep working, keep working and competition. Later on I start competing after friends challenging me hey, competition it's different, you know, it's the real pressure, pressure. And then I start competing for fun, end up winning uh, the state tournament was a big deal back then. And then I start my competition career over there yeah, yes.

Joe: 7:34

So one thing comes to mind. So I've only competed in the atlanta ibjjf opens in brazil. In those state tournaments are they similar or?

Leo: 7:45

is it? More like a culture like they, state tournament would be bigger than Atlanta. Atlanta open is the people around the area right? So a state tournament would catch the whole state, all the cities, in one tournament okay, okay so back in the late 90s, early 2000s was there were not many tournaments a year.

Leo: 8:08

There were maybe two or three. So it was a very hard tournament For you to have an idea back in the days. To compete in the World Championship you had to earn your spot. Nowadays they're doing it. Nowadays they bring it back, but only for black belts. Back in the days it was for every belt. So you have to have your winnings. You have to be a state winner, you have to be a national winner or a Pan American winner to qualify to compete in the World Championship. Oh, wow, I would not say a winner, but the top three. You have to earn this spot. You have to be a podium, but keep in mind you've got to have like five or six fights, yeah, so it was a big deal back in the day, Like hey you're going to compete in the world championship.

Leo: 8:56

Like you have to earn.

Joe: 8:57

You're not competing, you have to earn. Yeah versus someone like maybe going to Master Worlds and have three people in their bracket and just have a really good day as a blue belt or something.

Leo: 9:07

So back in the days was everything in Brazil, so a lot of good guys in Brazil. I bet we could have way more champions, but they can afford traveling. Sometimes they have visa problems coming to a different country, so at least in the lower belts I feel it was more competitive. But the US nowadays the world has been here since 2007. It's catching up. Maybe it's the same level nowadays or better.

Joe: 9:38

The black belts that started their training in Brazil that I've talked to. Even when I travel for business, I go to different places and have conversations and some of their stories are similar to yours. Like they came in to BJJ, to jujitsu, because like it was almost a survival thing, like I have to do this to survive. And it's so funny because I've always thought about, oh man, brazil would be a nice place to go. But here I am, this white guy from Georgia, rodrigo, says I'm getting mugged day one probably there.

Joe: 10:13

But no, he was saying some of the same stuff about we were fighting on the streets, you had to be able to fight and to defend yourself. Versus how I came into it, where my kids just decided he didn't want to do it anymore and I didn't want to stiff them with a contract. So I said I'll go try it. Right, I didn't have to do it because I was and I did 17 and all of this other stuff, but I didn't have the sense of the ability to protect myself as I do now doing jiu-jitsu. So that's awesome to hear that coming from you. That's a legitimate reason. A lot of people over there get into it, or at least did. What would you say are some of the biggest challenges and hurdles in those early stages, uh, that you faced, I would imagine, because you a lot of our listeners may obviously may not have seen you. You're a pretty tall guy, um, and I would imagine that karate that was an advantage, but what were some of these challenges and hurdles that you may have had?

Joe: 11:23

the challenging yeah, just like. Maybe you know when you made those first six months where you were just like oh man, I don't, I don't know.

Leo: 11:31

If you know, I'm gonna make it through this right yeah, the biggest challenge for me was the strength this strength. I was 13 years old training with men and back back in the days the culture in jiu-jitsu was being jacked strong right technique was 50. You know nowadays you see guys way more technical than back in the days. Back in the days they rely a lot in strength and I didn't have that strength I was a kid, I had to develop my technique. That's why I always emphasize a lot in technique, Like even if I'm exhausted. I can keep up a good fight.

Leo: 12:10

Because, I always have that philosophy of technique over strength and conditioning. Obviously, in the high level, strength and conditioning will make a difference, but if you are basic technique, you rely more on technique.

Joe: 12:24

you're gonna be a better athlete yeah, I think that's one of the things I love the most about jiu-jitsu. So I'm 5'11, maybe 188, 190 pounds. Um, literally everybody in my uh alliance roswell is stronger than me. Yeah, we have a lot of I mean, you know that the kind of the demographics of our our gym. It's a heavy white belt but a lot of I mean you know the kind of the demographics of our gym. It's a heavy white belt, but a lot of young guys. You know 21 to maybe 30. So the fact that you know technique can give you some type of advantage over strength. It's been amazing for me and it lets me know I'm in the right martial arts.

Leo: 13:04

Yeah, I always have students reaching up to me. You know, man, this is hard. You know, like I'm a small guy, and I look and I say I know what's being a small guy. I start this young, not always being 6'3", 230 pounds.

Joe: 13:20

Yeah.

Leo: 13:21

I've been a small guy and I know what you're facing. I know the difficulty, you know, yeah, and I started when I guy and I know what you're facing. I know the difficulty, you know.

Joe: 13:26

Yeah, and I started when I was, so I have a 13-year-old, so I have a 26-year-old, a 13-year-old, a 12-year-old, a 10-year-old and a 7-year-old right, it's a big family.

Intro/Outro: 13:35

Huge man and my 13-year-old, because he takes after his mom's side. Is I mean?

Joe: 13:48

he's five, nine, 140 pounds, so he's going to be bigger than me, right? Yes, um, and we have, you know, not sure where I'm going with this, but we have in, uh, our gym, a guy his name is marco, and have you, have you ever met marco? You may have, you may not have, but uh, he is probably five, six and all of 135, 140 pounds, dominating pretty much all of us. Wow, there's only a few that can even control him. I mean his guards, almost impossible to pass. And you know, he's white belt, four stripe, been trained. Yeah, he, he's white belt, four stripe. Wow, yeah, he's. So it's. I love, yeah, I just love that aspect about jiu-jitsu it's technique-focused and I think that's, you know where its foundations kind of came from in that, hey, this is a martial art that the bigger guy can win or the smaller guy can win, right?

Leo: 14:45

Yep.

Joe: 14:47

So let's talk about some. You know mentorship and growth. You're uniquely positioned to talk about this because you know of being trained under. You know Fabio, a legendary figure in jujitsu, and can you share a little bit maybe, how his mentorship influenced your approach and anybody else that you kind of want to call out whose mentorship has made a big impact on your, your journey?

Leo: 15:13

yeah, fabio had a huge impact, especially in the competition career. I would say in the competition career he has. The biggest impact for me on the teaching career that I take separately was our master jacare, so I thought with jacare with him for a few years. So that that's a different approaching teaching and competing. But for competition, uh, training under Fabio was amazing. Every day, every training was a seminar. You're learning techniques. That I was like wow, you know. Nowadays I see people, the information is so easy.

Intro/Outro: 15:57

You Google?

Leo: 15:57

YouTube BJJ Fanatics. But back then was not any of that right, so you have to rely on seminars and classes. Any of that right. So you have to rely on seminars and classes. So every class was a seminar and also every class was the world championship. Back in my generation, I believe to this day, we had the best crew at alliance training in a mat. In the one mat was me, bernardo.

Joe: 16:25

Bruno.

Leo: 16:25

Balfacine, michael Lange, tarsus Humphries, antonio Peinado, many, many great athletes. So every role was a final Wow and Fabio keeps everything super competitive, right? I remember, in order to compete the Open, you have to train, like that month. You have to train, you have to have a perfect run, training the whole month. And he would not tell us who would represent Elias in the Open class division. He would tell one night before Wow. So that was his way of keeping us in check. Yeah, you know like stay prepared.

Leo: 17:10

You have to stay prepared always gazing our best in technique, strength and conditioning, discipline, showing up like in on time and things like that that's probably.

Joe: 18:29

I would imagine that can be a little bit frustrating for you sometimes now seeing how now it's kind of a lot of hobbyists that kind of come in too and it may not be the case here at headquarters but I know you know, throughout other gyms. A lot of gyms are very hobbyist heavy, if you have every gym, every gym, every gym is hobbyist heavy.

Leo: 18:51

It's like three percent, yeah, every gym where it used to be different right well, yes, yes, uh, but the growth of jujitsu is because of the hobbyist that. That's what keeps jujitsu alive yeah right, because the competitor have a short career right after his 30s is gonna slow down, and then he either become a hobbyist or he quit.

Joe: 19:18

Yeah, that's that's the struggle I face. Like I think it's probably the biggest struggle I'm facing right now and in my journey is is how much I want to focus on like competing, because you know, I I told you before we started recording I started at 42, only been training maybe, well, let's see. Did this April make two years? I think this April made two years. Blue belt how I'm not going to go and win a world champion as far as, like, in the adult division. I'm not going to be and win a world champion as far as, like, you know, in the adult division, right, I'm not going to be a black belt, probably till my 50s, right, uh, so it's, you know how much time and effort do I want to put into it? I love it, I love the, uh, the preparation, I love going to an open, the atmosphere, and you know I it's, I've become kind of addicted to it. So I'm like a borderline hobbyist competitor and I'm trying to figure out which way do I go?

Leo: 20:18

I think everyone, everyone, have that passion to compete and all that. It's still very competitive, master Division, because you're going against guys that do the same thing as you. They have a normal job and they train as hard as they can right, go to the gym, uh, training jiu-jitsu four or five times a week, three times a week, it depends, right, yeah, but they all train hard and the same, on the same rules, right, they have their work, they have their family yeah, they train yeah right, the the difference of the professional guy that he don't have a family.

Leo: 20:55

Most of the time, if he's really professional, he's living away from his family. Yeah, um, he don't have any hobbies besides jiu-jitsu right and that that's it, you know. And he make money doing jiu-jitsu. That that's how his income, that's how he makes his living, sponsors and tournaments and all that.

Joe: 21:17

Right right.

Leo: 21:18

So the commitment is a little bit deeper on the adult, but that's his main job. On the masters, they have a commitment but they have other side jobs and things like that. Right Right, they have a commitment but they have other side jobs and things like that. Right, right. But I believe the master guy sometimes works just as hard, or sometimes harder than the professional guy, because the professional guy don't have to worry about his kids, his wife, pay mortgage and things like that.

Joe: 21:45

Yeah, yeah, think about the guys on what is it? Daisy Fresh, where they just kind of all live in a? Yeah, his only worry is getting better in jiu-jitsu.

Leo: 21:56

Yeah he's not worried about anything else. I'm not saying it's yeah, it's easy, no, it's not easy. But yeah, I don't want to take the credit away from the master guys that sometimes work eight hours a day and, oh yeah, still have energy to train and that's like impressive, like a strong. Will you know to train that? I gave the guys a lot of credit for that.

Joe: 22:18

Like it's impressive yeah, you all have here, uh, the, the executive class and that's that's made up of a lot of kind of professional guys and I know, uh, even at our alliance location, we have people from all walks of life. Some are young and single and don't have any really the family commitments that you're talking about, and they do. They tend to train, you know more, some of them a couple times a day, and then you know, we have a nurse, we have a doctor, we have a CEO that trains there we have, you know, their life is just swamped right. So, no, it's encouraging to hear. So we're talking a little bit about competition. Let's kind of move into some of your competitions.

Joe: 22:57

Uh, over the years you've competed at you know, the highest level, uh competitions that that one could probably compete at. Could you maybe talk us through and highlight maybe one or two of your most memorable matches for you and kind of explain what really made them memorable for you?

Leo: 23:16

Well, I have a few, quite a few right, but the one that teach me a lesson for the whole life of like never giving up was my Worlds as a brown belt 2008. I had a serious injury on the semifinal, torn the ligaments of my knee in a brown belt 2008. I had a serious injury on the same final, torn the ligaments of my knee in a takedown. I want to fight the same finals, but they still have the finals. And I was like how in the hell in the world are gonna fight, uh, with one leg?

Leo: 23:49

But it was my first tournament in the US and I was like, and I still paying my ticket. I put in the credit card. I said, hey, let's go, let's see what's going to happen. And I had that in mind. I said, wow, all this time of investment, training and still paying for the ticket. I said you know what? I'm already here, my knee's already gone. I have nothing to lose. And know what? I'm already here, my knee is already gone. That's it, nothing to lose. And a miracle happened I won the world with one leg in the final. I can't believe to this day.

Joe: 24:18

But the biggest lesson is like never give up of your dreams, even if it seems impossible do you remember how you won it, like kind of what strategy you had to protect the knee and still Did you win by submission or points?

Leo: 24:31

I knew I won by points. I knew the guy would try to get my hurt leg. I knew he saw I was limping and could not walk. I knew his strategy would get that leg and I based my fight on defending that leg. I knew he would fall on the bottom trying to attack the leg. I would come up and score my points.

Joe: 24:49

Wow.

Leo: 24:49

That's how I won. But all strategy that fight I I to this day.

Joe: 24:56

I can't explain I still can't believe you won that one.

Leo: 24:59

Yeah, that was the first one. That's very marble, memorable. Uh, uh, fight pro. Probably that uh gave me like encouragement in my career was my first big win on black belt with the Brazilian National Absolute Division. I beat Márcio Pedipano, who was a hero, a two-time absolute world champion. When I started white belt I bought a jiu-jitsu magazine. Guess who was on the cover Him.

Joe: 25:30

Him.

Leo: 25:31

Him beating Roger Gracie, wow. And when I got my black belt he was there. I was like I can't believe I'm going to fight this guy. What am I going to do? You know, I grew up like being expired by these champions, you know, and I end up winning. That was like I was like I can do this. You know, I can be one of those guys. And that definitely changed my career. And in the same year I won that tournament, opened the Pandora box for me. I started winning big tournaments. After that Brazilian National, I win Worlds, and then I win european and then I win pan-american. That was the, the fight that gave me a inspiration for everything.

Joe: 26:21

Like I can do this, yeah yeah, I've watched all your fights that the ones that are on youtube and that that I can find online they're just, they're just amazing. The um one thing that that I've always online they're just, they're just amazing. The um one thing that that I've always been impressed with with watching in your fights is one the level of the competitors that you're, you're, you're against. I mean, I think you've trained with our buchesha. Did you fight with buchesha?

Leo: 26:43

yeah, yeah, we used to train together back. Wow, same team, before I become alliance wow, before I become a Lance.

Joe: 26:49

Wow, that's just you know, but it's the intensity, the speed. Bernardo Fier, he's another influence of mine. I've been working a lot on half guard. I've told you about and it's just the intensity of y'all's matches. I get stuck on the bottom, I stop moving and one thing I notice is like you know, you and other black belts, and just you'll never stop moving and trying to advance and I just love watching those fights. So it's good to hear, it's really cool to hear you talk about you know kind of where your mindset was in these fights and I don't think I knew that about your knee in that fight.

Leo: 27:29

Yeah, that knee fight was two years before my biggest win in black belt. That taught me a lot you don't give up, even even if I lose.

Joe: 27:38

I was training next day how long did it take you to recover from the that? I mean, how did you have to take a year off, did you?

Leo: 27:45

if I can be completely honest with you, to this day I don't have a surgery, so sometimes my knee, my knees, still bother me, you know I had to go in 10 doctors to one say, hey, you might have a chance if you do rehab and all that.

Leo: 28:01

But if you see my name, everybody that know me know like how loses my leg and all that. That's why I I adapt my game, uh, on passing guard only on the knees, like the san paulo pass. So was the reason I start passing that way was through my necessities, right injury and all that to protect my leg.

Joe: 28:23

Yeah, I uh, I, I do, uh. One of the reasons I focus on on half guard and attacks from closed guard that's kind of my game is because of my knees as well. As I mentioned, I was in the military but I was also a paratrooper, so I jumped out of airplanes and I had an injury where my main chute didn't open all the way. Well, it opened and then it collapsed and I burned in from like 100 feet and just messed up my knees, knocked me out, really caused a lot of injuries, and this was when I was probably like 24. I'll be 45 this year and same thing still this day. I've never had any knee surgery like replacement. So I'm 45, but probably have 80-year-old knees and so I have to adapt too. Right, I love lasso guard, but I can't play it a lot because not so much the grips but the pressure it puts on the knee to hold.

Leo: 29:22

Yeah, you twist.

Joe: 29:23

And even to sweep them. I only do Della Eva to get into deep half or to sweep. I don't stay in these guards, right, and I very seldom shoot for takedowns and stuff like that. So I'm a guard puller. I catch a lot of heck from that, from the the guys, but it is what it is. Be who you are right, yep, um, so we're talking techniques. Uh, I know, and a lot of people who know you know you're famous for the sao paulo pass. What, what is it called in brazil? It's not sao paulo pass, what is it called?

Leo: 29:55

it's a few names. Uh a guy that make this famous was uh three guys I first seen doing was tozy okay, yeah, a lot of guys called tozy pass. I see, uh, professor godoy, uh doing that and uh, back bosa, uh, a guy that famous guys in jiu jitsu that beat harley gracey back in the days. I saw those guys doing and but I didn't have the strength to do it and I had. I had a few changes on the technique, a few adaptations for for the size and strength and all that right but basically, the course, the position is the same right.

Joe: 30:35

so you, you, you kind of answered this question already, but just kind of want to peel some layers back on it, so you kind of moved to the Sao Paulo Pass because of your knees. It was a really effective way of opening the guard.

Leo: 30:50

Yes, yes, I started doing Sao Paulo Pass since I was blue belt but I didn't use much. But I always had a thought in my mind if I hurt my leg during a match or in the week of the tournament, how can I pass the guard from my knees? You know, I always have those thoughts in Jiu Jitsu, like if I cannot use this arm, what I do, you know, I always work my technique around like eventualities that can happen, and that was one. I was ready, I already had a game, but I used to pass standing. But I was like I cannot pass standing anymore. It's not reliable. So I start emphasizing more on passing on the knees.

Joe: 31:37

Yeah.

Leo: 31:39

But I had the game already prepared. I just gave a few refinements and touches as a brown to black.

Joe: 31:49

So in your seminars you teach those variations and to all the listeners I highly recommend any chance you can get to one of Professor Nogueira's seminars. You do Out of those variations. I know them because I was at your last seminar. But is there any favorite variation? I can tell you my favorite is the trap the arm underneath, gi or no gi and then pass where you do the shoulder crunch. But do you have one that works the best or do you just kind of measure up your opponent at the time and what he's giving you?

Leo: 32:23

well, that's my philosophy of fighting. Is not what I want is what they gave to me, so I don't have one. That's like the ultimate pass. I have a few right I have a few few that I like, but I don't get to choose. It's whatever is available and that's not only for passing, it's from everywhere. That's my philosophy of fighting. That's what I try to teach my students. You have a few options, you build up a few options. I try to predict what you're going to do after I initiate and that's how I fight.

Joe: 33:01

Yeah, that's something I need to work on. It's probably from my inexperiences. I try to force what I want. I try to like. I just told you, my favorite variation is the one you teach, where you push them down, grab them from behind and draw them on their shoulder. I mean, you know what I'm talking to, but I just try to set that up from everywhere.

Leo: 33:26

But if I can't get their elbow on the mat, why am I trying that? Right, obviously I have a core. Right you have. You gotta have a start point. I cannot be passive awaiting the guy fight. Right, I have a core and I would say my favorite is the most basic on the hook, walk to the side, switch my base, push the legs open. That's the core and from I start fighting from there. Right, but yeah, I I like to keep everything like basic and simple.

Joe: 33:49

Anyone can do my jiu-jitsu white belt, a training three months can fight, like me yeah, one of the reasons I continue to be a huge follower and fan is, um, not just the Sao Paulo pass technique, because I think it's an amazing way to open guard. But you're big into half guard. You know, on BJJ Fanatics you have the half guard encyclopedia. I'm working through it for the second time. But what drew you to half guard and focusing on that?

Leo: 34:22

Well, I think what drew me to half guard was since a young age I play open guard and the guys pass my guard in two seconds they grab my leg, throw to the side. I was like I started playing half guard just to keep control, keep the guy from passing my guard fast. Obviously, before I developed the half guard, they smashed me right. They controlled, they squeezed, but at least they take like a good minute to pass right. I could hold the guy in the position and I was like you know, but I have to make this work, like I can't be smashed, but at least it's not fast. That's how I started playing half guard, mainly to slow down my opponent and then later on I make my half guard more offensive. Obviously I had inspirations. My first instructor, teco shinzato, roberto correa gordo. That's the half guard, absolute master of the half guard. This is the number one. Number one half guard, roberto Correa. Wow.

Joe: 35:28

The half guard master.

Leo: 35:30

Yes, any half guard guy with integrity will tell you the truth. He is the guy. And then later on, I started developing, watched a few other guys that play half guard, I started creating my own style in half guard and that's how it went, you know. I take inspiration from a few guys and start doing my own touches in the position and develop.

Joe: 35:56

That's exactly why I transitioned to wanting to learn, you know, studying half guard and working on it. It's because my open guard it was nothing. I mean people were passing it like I wasn't doing anything. I can't play open guard my knee, maybe my age, I'm not a very athletic person, yeah. So I have to immediately lock people down. And when I first started studying half guard, I started studying. I started studying some of Bernardo's things. He's very offensive with his half guard, but with my half guard I'm almost always on the bottom. I don't always stay to the side. People are on top of me. You show a lot of techniques on. Okay, if you are flat, it's not over.

Joe: 36:39

You can get out of this. You can get back to offense, and I think that's one of the things that I'm getting the most out of your training, your instructionals and your approach is how okay you're in a bad position in half guard right now. It's not the best one, but this is how you're going to get out of it A lot of sweeps I've learned.

Leo: 37:01

Yeah, when I started recording that instructionals one but this is how you're going to get out of it a lot of sweeps I've learned. So, yeah, when I start recording that instruction, I was thinking about someone that had no strength, uh, not athletic, and an older guy and everything on the helms of. Uh, reality, right? No, nothing fancy, nothing crazy. Uh, I call encyclopedia because I show the most efficient techniques in half guard. Obviously that's not all the techniques ever, but in my opinion is the most effective techniques in half guard that anyone, any size, can do it. Some of the techniques that I see people show require you being super flexible inverting your neck and all that. That's not realistic for everyone. I try to create a universal methodology for everyone, in any age, any size.

Joe: 37:56

So I put a lot of thought in that instructional, a lot of hard work yeah, this is, uh, you know, when I do podcasts, especially with with people that you know I really want to learn more about and, and, you know, get to know, um, you get, you get to pick up on a lot of the characteristics that made them really good at. You know jujitsu and life and what they do, and one of the things that's standing out in our conversation is you've always seemed to adapt jujitsu to you and to what fits you and and I would imagine that shows up a lot in like your training regime. So let's spend a couple, you know, minutes or so talking about really two, two questions. I have One.

Joe: 38:43

Let's say you were preparing for, uh, your next competition, where it be worlds. What have you? You know what? What would be your, your kind of training regime? Uh, what you know, would you be? Obviously it'd be a mix of, you know, weight training and jujitsu. But and then also we have here in alliance a lot of world champions, a lot even here in headquarters. At the last worlds we had, how many world champions did we have in across the belts? Do you remember? I know we had three. We had three right from here yes, right here, yeah um, so.

Joe: 39:22

So we, the instructors, the, the coaches, are obviously doing something right. So what would you say if you have, let's say, blue Belt who is training for their first Master World or World? What kind of would be some of the training regime for them? So you first, what would you focus on? How do you approach it? And then how do you approach it with, say, your competition team going into Worlds?

Leo: 39:49

I think the mental part is very underestimated for most people. They focus on technique, they focus on diet, they focus on weightlifting, but they forget the most important thing is your mind. Your mind is the most important thing. Is your mind, your mind is most important thing. In the competition comes a lot of athletes, the top 10. They're the basically the same level. The only thing taking those guys apart is the mindset, their focus.

Leo: 40:20

So one thing that I strongly recommend you, if you're gonna compete, you start training yourself is your mind, training thoughts. You have a bad thought coming. Start thinking about something positive every day. Train yourself every day. Train yourself even during rolling somebody pass a guard. It's not the end of the world. Set your mind okay, I have a chance to escape, I'm going to win. Always positive. Never, if always, when right. So mindset is very important you visualizing you recovering from bad situations, winning, even losing, learning what makes you lose, what can you improve, you know. But every day, every day, have positive thoughts and visualize you fighting, you escaping bad situations, you overcoming problems. And during a camp, many things can go wrong in the week of the tournament if you injure yourself. I win many tournaments with injuries or I was sick like a day before, and what made me win was my mindset. I was prepared. I was not caught by surprise. I'm always expecting something to go wrong, but I've been working that in my mind. I'm being prepared for that. So I think that, um, that's what this depreciating, uh, the very top athletes against, like someone that's coming up good but it's missing something and I see a lot of guys going for, like uh, doctors, right, uh the uh how you guys call over here, um, like a mentor, uh that gave you advice, like uh console oh right yeah

Leo: 42:20

and a lot of those consoles. They never done that before. They. They don't have the experience. They're just going to say things to make you feel good, but that's not the truth. Sometimes what you need is the truth, and the truth sometimes is not nice.

Leo: 42:35

Right, and I gave myself like. What helped me is self-confirmation. Right, I have to train jiu-jitsu three hours. I've done it. Checklist my brain. No, you've done what you have to do. You've done your conditioning. Yes, you've done your diet. Yes.

Leo: 42:57

So my level of confidence on the day of the tournament is super high. But why? Because I keep myself in check every day. I know I've done everything in my power to achieve my goal. But at the same time, if I slack a little bit, even a little bit, my mind will go against me. Hey, you didn't put the work, my friend. You didn't put the work you don't deserve. You didn't put the work, my friend, you didn't put the work you don't deserve. But when I put the work to the extreme, like, I have that self-belief of earning. No, you deserve that. Nobody works harder than you. Maybe the same. Maybe the same Because you're not that special, it's more people like you. Right, maybe the same. You're not that special. It's more people like you, right, maybe the same but not more not more, yeah, so I think that that was my.

Leo: 43:52

That's what makes me different than most, most guys yeah, I feel like you.

Joe: 43:56

You were just my counselor. There is somebody who is preparing for the atlanta open in september. That that's amazing, and I've heard it said too that you can talk yourself into a win and you can talk yourself into a loss, right.

Leo: 44:09

Yes.

Joe: 44:11

And you know, I think that's what happened in my very first competition. At least a month, and from that month all the way up to competition day, the only thing I was focused on and and I kept saying, well, the only thing I want is to not get beat fast, not get beat fast, not get beat fast. The guy beat me in 35 seconds I had that to happen because I just thought about that.

Joe: 44:37

That's all I focused on. I didn't focus on anything. I didn't, you know? Uh, rodrigo was break the grip, break the right, and I, to this day, I've never gotten caught in in that, never got caught in training or anything, but I think I talked myself into a loss yeah, it's something funny about me.

Leo: 44:53

I never thought about winning the tournament. In general, my thought was in not losing. Yeah Right, every fight was the final, every fight was the final. So obviously the risotto is a consequence of not losing. But I've seen many guys overwhelmed about certain competitions. They go oh man, maybe I'm going to fight the Naga or any local tournament instead of the Autonom Open they fear the name IBJJF, because it's quality tournament, high-level athletes, right.

Leo: 45:31

But you're not fighting against the tournament, you're fighting people. That's in the tournament. So I don't care if I gonna fight the local tournament over here next block or to fight the world championship in Las Vegas. For me it's the same. I'm going to have the same mindset, fighting local or fighting internationally. I'm fighting people and I will be prepared to fight anyone. It doesn't matter the level. Right, never underestimate anyone. A white belt can grab my neck and a guillotine and put me to tap. So, yeah, you should never underestimate anyone and treat a fight with respect. Put your time and training and make sure you've done everything you could. Don't give yourself excuses.

Joe: 46:22

Yeah, I think that's one thing I've been doing well in my career is anybody that I'm training with or rolling with. I give them the respect. It doesn't matter if they've been training for two weeks, three weeks, what have you? Yeah, just like you said, anybody can catch anybody, anybody can catch anybody.

Leo: 46:38

Yes, I, I always tell my students, hey, nothing is impossible.

Joe: 46:42

I don't think I'll ever catch Rodrigo, though I don't think I'll ever catch him.

Leo: 46:49

It's not impossible.

Joe: 46:50

He is so gosh, he's still tapping me to pressure Gosh, he's a big guy, he is not only big, he also has a really good technique for his size. Yes. Rodrigo is a guy that's very technical and he's always studying jiu-jitsu.

Joe: 47:06

He really loves jiu-jitsu, yeah, I think that's why he and I have bonded so much. Uh, you know, during during my time there, I count him as one of my best friends is. We're always studying, we're always watching. On the weekends I'm watching, you know, tournaments on flow grappling. You know I'm obviously doing the bJ Fanatics. He gives me a hard time about that because he probably thinks I watch it too much, but I'm going to keep watching.

Leo: 47:30

Yes, that's always good. I always encourage my guys to watch. But I always tell what's the reputation of the guy you watch. He says the same exact thing.

Joe: 47:39

What is the?

Leo: 47:40

reputation of the guy you watch. Make sure you watch from someone that has a good reputation and results right. Not only reputation by talking, but show your work. If the guy's a non-competitor, he's only a coach who he produce.

Joe: 47:54

Who's?

Leo: 47:54

the guys he make win. Okay, you don't need to be a champion to be a good coach. You need to produce people. That's fair proof, right yeah?

Joe: 48:05

As they say here in Georgia, my grandmother, or I call her my granny, that's what we say here in Georgia. The proof is in the pudding right. It's what's coming out of the school. It's also the mentality and, I think, the community of the school too right, the culture of the school. And it has to be a good environment and I've been really lucky to train in really good environments. But then when I travel sometimes I'll go to these different, maybe not mainstream gyms to train and you can tell there's a little bit of yeah cockiness and egos and things like that.

Joe: 48:48

There I've been lucky not to have that. So, uh, let's see. So about how you know, a little over halfway through the conversation here got a couple more sections I want to cover with you and let's pivot kind of away from competition. Um, at some point in your career you you decided, you know, maybe I'm going to slow down from competing and I'm going to start teaching. Can you talk?

Leo: 49:09

uh, talk us a little bit from that transitioning from a high level competitor into, hey, you know what I want to coach, and then your journey into the head head professor here at at alliance yeah, I think that's a natural curve for an athlete that want to live with Jiu-Jitsu, right, Want to make Jiu-Jitsu as a living, you have to be an instructor or a business owner of a school and things like that. I start teaching early as a purple belt but teach class one here, one there nothing like every day, right, I started really teaching every day when I moved to the US. In Brazil, I used to cover classes here and there, but private lessons always been teaching private lessons. But I really started becoming better at teaching when I moved here to the headquarters With the guidance of our master, Romero Jacare Cavalcanti. He taught me everything I know about teaching. When did you move to the US? In 2013. So I started teaching here at the headquarters in 2015.

Joe: 50:18

Okay, so a couple years after you, yes, and every day.

Leo: 50:23

I was teaching with Master Jacare Every single day. Wow, even the way I learned everything. I try to do everything the way he likes, like the way he prepare people, the way he prepare people to compete, and all that. So he was my inspiration in the teaching area and that's a whole new world. Don't mean you have good achievements in jiu-jitsu. Being a world champion will make you a good instructor. That's a totally different route. Obviously it will help you have a reputation of being good. That will help you right. But if you're learning a new skill from the beginning dealing with people, talking, communicating the way you learn is a different way that that guy over there will learn. And then you face challenges of body types, right, sometimes you want to teach like inversion guard and that guy cannot invert and you have to adapt your classes to be enjoyable for everyone. Everyone have to take good experience and you learn that from years of teaching.

Joe: 51:39

What do you find most rewarding about coaching? And also what do you find most rewarding about coaching, and also what do you find most challenging.

Leo: 51:46

The most rewarding is changing people's lives. That's so rewarding Seeing a guy that was shy, low confidence, and seeing that guy become something you know, become a champion or become more confident on his job. I had many, many good feedbacks. I have guys with problem with being claustrophobic and now this guy is a fireman, you know, he's like rescuing people from fires, but that guy was a claustrophobic guy, you know. And I had a guy that was really bad in communicating group in large groups, and now he's a CEO of a company and things like that. That's like amazing. A guy that could never win any medal in his whole life and nowadays he's a world champion. Wow, that's for me, it's earning that. It's bigger than I win a tournament Nowadays. If I win one more tournament, for me it will be one more medal. But if I produce someone that achieves something don't need to be a championship, achieve something in life, maybe a job promotion, things like that I get happy for my students.

Joe: 53:01

Yeah, that's amazing. What about some challenges? What do you think are the biggest challenges?

Leo: 53:07

I think the biggest challenge we face, especially when the guys start, it's the Some schools gave the guy the wrong view of Jiu-Jitsu Jiu-Jitsu being violent or Jiu-Jitsu being too hard. The way we teach students over here from day one it's like step by step, little by little, always encouraging the student. I've seen guys like oh man, I have to get in shape to train jiu-jitsu. That's not such a thing. Start training jiu-jitsu, get in shape as you train jiu-jitsu. I think a lot of guys have that mind oh, I have to be strong and fit to train in jiu-jitsu. And that's not the reality.

Joe: 53:48

So getting past the newcomers' mental blocks and kind of assumptions of what they need to be before they start training, yes, yes.

Leo: 53:58

Physically, mentally, me myself. I was very shy in the young age. I could not talk in public, you know, oh wow, I had a really hard time and Jiu Jitsu. Jiu Jitsu completely changed my life let's, let's talk about the community.

Joe: 54:15

We talked a little bit about it and then we're gonna, you know, play the rapid fire game. So the, so the community can get to know a little bit more about you. One of the things that I love the most about jiu-jitsu is the community. I'm making lifelong friends here, connections. It's changed my life. Could you kind of talk us through how you, as a head professor, kind of create and foster that sense of community here at Alliance?

Leo: 54:43

Well, we share not only jiu-jitsu, but we share our hobbies on the mat. It's really a family, right. I know about the guy's problem, what's happening? His daughter is going to get married, His son is sick, his dog passed away. We share hobbies I have a lot of guys that like to hunt and shoot, some guys that rise like to race cars and we share our hobbies and it's a big family. It's no other place that people share all that belonging and that's just amazing. The the community. It's not only about training, right, it's about the group and jiu-jitsu. You can do jiu-jitsu for a very long time. You cannot do Muay Thai or boxing for a very long time.

Leo: 55:34

Right the technique allows you to go longer, right, Mm-hmm. And most of the guys over here train over 20 years. Oh wow, so it's jujitsu for life. So it's literally like part of the family Holidays we get together and things like that.

Joe: 55:53

I was watching Fast and Furious that movie series a while back and I got thinking, wow, it's kind of like how we are at Alliance. As well, we're all just kind of like this family.

Joe: 56:03

It's kind of like how we are at Alliance At Oswell. We're all just kind of like this family. We all kind of share and go to lunch together and things like that. So let's go through. I want to play the rapid-fire game with you here and then close out with a couple more questions and then we'll wrap things up Again. Thank you so much for this. But rapid-fire question number one are you a fan of gi or no gi?

Leo: 56:25

Gi, Gi. Yeah, that's my root. I was hoping you would say that I start with the gi. It's my root. I like no gi, but I have a bigger love for the gi. It's more like tools to use right Colors, more techniques around the gi.

Joe: 56:44

Yeah, I have to slow people down. I have to be able to slow them down and grab something and hold them. Favorite submission.

Leo: 56:51

Cross choke, cross choke. I believe the choke is powerful, right, you choke someone, you put them on conscience. If you put a lock, submission, arm bar or knee bar on someone, they have the option of not tapping and keep fighting. The choke is the most powerful submission in jiu-jitsu. It fights over.

Joe: 57:14

Yeah, I'm sitting here thinking back. You did a lunch kind of hour seminar at Alliance Roswellwell and you always roll with the students after, and the first time I rolled with you I tried to pass with a folding pass and you cross choked me. I remember that now. Now I know why it was your favorite choke.

Leo: 57:33

I was like, wow you choked me, yeah, choke from everywhere mount. Oh it was. It was close guard, open guard, yeah choke is there.

Joe: 57:40

I remember you locked my, uh, my hand in in between your legs and just it was on, uh, so so are you a morning person, evening person, do you like the night live day? What, what do you?

Leo: 57:53

hi, my evening person, I go to bed late, but that don't mean I I wake up late, I wake up early. I teach classes in the morning but I morning, but I enjoy my time in the evening. I like to train in the evening. Maybe that's one of the reasons my metabolism is fast and working and that's why I think I enjoy it.

Joe: 58:14

That's the class you teach. Is the evening class, is that correct? I teach?

Leo: 58:17

morning, afternoon and evening full-time. Oh, all of them.

Joe: 58:22

Okay, all of them, yes, okay. And afternoon and evening full time all of them, okay, okay, okay. And hobbies on the outside. I know we didn't go over to talk a little bit about this question, but we were standing outside before we came into the office and and you were talking about one of your hobbies outside uh, what would you say?

Leo: 58:35

your favorite hobby is right now, right now, is motorsport uh racing cars on the track, not on the street.

Joe: 58:43

On the track, yeah what kind of cars are there?

Leo: 58:46

formula formula light cars street cars, touring cars, touring cars, a car with 200 300 horsepower on the track. We've been doing some amateur races. I have a few students that with me. We have a team and we race a few of the local events.

Joe: 59:08

Okay, okay, so you have your own car, yes, okay, what kind of car do you have?

Leo: 59:12

It's a BMW Series 3, modified for track, with a cage and suspension, a proper track car.

Joe: 59:22

Yeah, I've been watching some of your stuff on IG and, again, I know very little about racing, but it looks pretty addicting.

Intro/Outro: 59:30

So yeah, something you can get addicted to so most.

Joe: 59:34

who would you say is your most influential jiu-jitsu practitioner, the person that's influenced you the most in your jiu-jitsu career?

Leo: 59:43

I think my professor, the one who gave me the black belt, Fabio Gorgel, and then Master Jacare. After right, I have two philosophers the one who influenced me to be a competitor winner and the one who influenced me to be a great instructor. So those two, Master Romero, Jacare and Fabio, was my biggest influencer in my career.

Joe: 1:00:06

Okay, and what's one of your favorite cities to visit and compete in, besides Las Vegas?

Leo: 1:00:12

Well, I think the one that brought me really good memories is Lisbon, in Portugal.

Joe: 1:00:20

Oh, wow.

Leo: 1:00:21

Yeah, I won the absolute division in that tournament. But what makes special when I walked to the venue was a big banner with my picture from one of my sponsors, keiko, that sells geese, and I was like my friend, I'm here, right at the door, everybody sees me, it's better to represent. And I won the open right at the door, everybody sees me, it's better to represent Wow, and I won the Open Class Division in 2013. So that tournament was very special for me for that reason. The picture being there Portugal, a country that they speak Portuguese make the whole thing special.

Joe: 1:01:02

Oh, that had to be an amazing, amazing experience. I would feel immense pressure too if I saw that and like this huge blow-up poster of me, like everybody's there, to see you go upstairs to go to access the the tournament.

Leo: 1:01:14

They seen me and I was like well, but I'll lose yeah, yeah oh, that's crazy.

Joe: 1:01:23

Last question here on the rapid fire. You know I don't want to keep you here all day I probably could, but I know you have a busy schedule. Who would you most like to roll with? This could be past present. Who is somebody you would like to go a 10-minute round with?

Leo: 1:01:40

Roger Grace. You've never rolled with him, never rolled, so I was the first world champion in his division after he retired from adult. So I am the first world champion after him in his division and I won two years in a row. So if you see Roger Gracie, my name is right on the bottom Twice, yeah, roger is very complete athlete. Uh, super technical it's. It's a dream to to train with him.

Joe: 1:02:11

I uh, I remember at the last uh one of the seminars or the lucas leperi seminar at roswell, when you and uh lucas started kind of going, everybody just like sit down and watch.

Joe: 1:02:22

It's like oh my god it gosh, we should probably be paying to watch this. It was awesome. I've trained at his place when I go to Charlotte. It's awesome up there. That's cool. I think Rodrigo said the same thing, I can't remember when I asked him. I think that's somebody that a lot of people would like to to roll train with. So I'm lucky because I've I've gotten to roll with the person I wanted to, with you and um. So last a couple questions here. Um, you know I I told you before, uh, we, we got to recording at least that caffeinated jiu-jitsu. We like to focus a lot on those people who are thinking about jiu-jitsu early on in their career. But what advice would you give someone who is kind of like myself, just starting out, and maybe what beginners should focus on in that first year, 12 to 24 months?

Leo: 1:03:20

Beginners should focus on consistency and technique. Most of the guys starting Jiu-Jitsu they focus on winning, winning, winning, winning, winning. That's not the way. If the way only you think about winning, you're going to end up quitting Because, especially when you're a beginner, it's always going to have someone in the room better than you. So focus on yourself how much you learn, how much you know Like in my school, we have the hardest belt test in the world. In the world, in the world. You can go in any school we have the highest test in the world for every single belt.

Leo: 1:04:07

So yeah, knowledge right. Any school we have the highest test in the world for every single belt. So yeah, knowledge right. I want to know how many techniques do you know? That's first, even before you're being fit. Before anything, knowledge work your brain. So that's the advice I gave the guys consistency and knowledge setting training goals like all the rest will come as a consequence. So you being consistent, yeah, you're losing weight, you're getting shape, you're learning techniques.

Joe: 1:04:33

Consistency is the way and when you have all your black belts and upper belts together and it's just you and them and you are sitting around, what are some of the things and principles that you kind of teach and tell them to keep them going forward and things like that? What's the advice you give them?

Leo: 1:04:49

patient, being patient, uh, being patient, uh being precise with your technique and always perfecting what you know. We never know enough. We never know enough, we never know enough. Nobody knows 100% of everything. Only God knows 100%. We don't know 100%, so we got to keep working nonstop.

Joe: 1:05:11

Right. And the last group, that person sitting at home thinking about getting off the couch and going to jiu-jitsu. What would you say to them?

Leo: 1:05:20

They think about training.

Joe: 1:05:21

Yeah.

Leo: 1:05:22

Just come, come and train.

Joe: 1:05:23

Show up.

Leo: 1:05:24

Let's enjoy the journey. Sometimes we have good days, sometimes we have bad days.

Joe: 1:05:28

Yeah.

Leo: 1:05:29

But we got to keep going, no matter what.

Joe: 1:05:32

And final question what is ahead for Leo Nogueira? What do you have on the forefront? Are you thinking about competing in another? I mean, I can't imagine there's another gold medal out there that you don't have. But what's out there for the future in jiu-jitsu I'm thinking?

Leo: 1:05:48

about making winners. That's my goal. I think I had enough of competition. Never say never. Sometimes super fights show up and I got it, you know. But right now I'm focused on the guys. I want to leave a legacy of athletes. That's my goal.

Joe: 1:06:07

Leave a legacy of champions.

Leo: 1:06:09

I like that.

Joe: 1:06:10

I like that. Well, again, I can't thank you enough for agreeing to do this. I know you are super busy. I'm a super fan. I'm going to continue to be a super fan for the listeners. I hope you've enjoyed this and I hope to have more alliance champions on as well. And for those of you who are interested in checking out more uh, professor naguera, you can find him all over line. You can find his instructionals on bjj fanatics. You have sao paulo pass encyclopedia a half guard. Uh, half Guard. You have three more or two more.

Leo: 1:06:46

I have two passing.

Joe: 1:06:47

Two passing, that's it Two passing and one half guard. That's it, that's it and so check them out, pick them up. You won't regret it, professor Nogueira, thank you. Thank you so much.

Leo: 1:06:57

Thank you everybody. Everybody's welcome to come to visit me anytime.

Intro/Outro: 1:07:01

Just message me and I will be more than happy to have you here with me welcome to caffeinated jiu-jitsu the blend of white belt enthusiasm, black belt wisdom and a dash of caffeine for that extra kick. Dive deep into the world of brazil Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, as we explore the journey, techniques, challenges and the sheer joy of the sport from a White Belt's perspective. From intriguing interviews with renowned coaches and professors to playful fun episodes that'll have you chuckling mid-roll. We've got it all brewed and ready. Now, stepping onto the mess and into your ears, here's your host, joe Motes.